YWAMKnowledgeBase:Meeting 20100208

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Statistics Report: statistics

The meeting is held here: <skype action="chat">kevincolyerwork</skype> at 16h00 GMT+1.


You can put ideas here for what we want to talk about during the KB meeting. Anyone who wants to join in is welcome (put ~~~~: before your comment and you have the lead on that discussion!): (some or all of these)

  1. Following up last meetings Action points
    • Proposals: PP and KC to continue to develop new skin ideas - done - we met in person
    • Some accomplishments:
      • Pitpat has been briefed on server maintenance and given access codes. Bus-Factor of KN is now 2!
      • fratman_kb new default skin. Seems to be performing well.
      • HastyBot rewritten in perl and working well (automated now)
      • YWAM KB had some performance tunning - now pages rendered 300% faster (200ms not 600ms avg)
      • Getting close to 500,000 pages!
  2. When and where for next KB Sprint?
  3. How can we take fullest advantage of WELC in Dublin?
  4. Any other business (PUT YOUR THOUGHTS HERE!)
  5. Proposed next Meeting: Monday 1st March @ 16h00 GMT+1


Just so we manage to get some business done here are a few rules:

  1. Remember that a lot of attendees are writing in their second language - therefore ignore all unimportant spellings and also try to leave give more time for them to respond. Lets not 'shout' over the voices of others by bombarding people with messages.
  2. Try to stay on topic! Jokes and Red herrings are fun but probably not helpful in a chat context!
  3. The Chairman (today its Kevin) will set the topic. Try to follow it. TYPING THINGS IN CAPITALS IS THE CHAIRMANS WAY OF CALLING FOR ORDER.
  4. Voting: if asked to vote please vote +1 for yes and -1 for no. 0 or nothing is an abstention.
  5. Enjoy the meeting - you can have private chats with another person - just try to pay attention to the main flow of things too.


[16:15:36] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ya, i hear you
[16:15:40] … yes
[16:15:44] … are we alone?
[16:15:48] kevincolyerwork: As it is just you and me\
[16:15:54] … what's on your mind?
[16:16:25] the.matrix.is.everywhere: not a lot, i read a little bit through the PDF you recently sent around
[16:16:33] kevincolyerwork: what do you think?
[16:16:36] the.matrix.is.everywhere: but am far from getting through
[16:17:07] … so far it's intereting, i haven't gotten any particular point out of it yet
[16:17:21] … but i thonk it's a topic that needs to be addressed
[16:17:33] kevincolyerwork: Yes, the first pages are a report on Y and descriptiive
[16:17:43] … the second part is more instructive
[16:18:14] the.matrix.is.everywhere: here we go, where ever that 2nd part starts but i'm far from it
[16:19:02] … anyways, my thinking is that it's a general topic
[16:19:12] kevincolyerwork: I wonder what you think about the comments on the ORAL nature of YWAM - afterall you have been to the 50th!
[16:19:14] the.matrix.is.everywhere: how do we "distribute" knowledge
[16:19:28] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Hey guys.. I just dropped in
[16:19:35] the.matrix.is.everywhere: hi, welcome
[16:19:39] … good to see you
[16:19:46] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Great to see you too
[16:20:15] kevincolyerwork: hi arnoud
[16:21:07] … @neo - it is somethign to chew on!
[16:21:24] the.matrix.is.everywhere: yes it is
[16:21:54] … oral nature is good, at least here it works pretty good, as in things are communicated well
[16:22:00] kevincolyerwork: Arnoud - neo and i were just chatting about the doc I sent around
[16:22:09] Arnoud van Dillewijn: I just read quickly what you wrote..
[16:22:23] the.matrix.is.everywhere: (Y)
[16:23:27] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Is that about the paper?
[16:23:36] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ya, that pdf
[16:23:43] … from a few days ago
[16:23:49] kevincolyerwork: about Y
[16:24:25] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Alright, well.. I didnt have the opportunity yet to read it. My laptop is still in repair.. So lots of KB work is on the shelf for some time
[16:24:35] kevincolyerwork: ;(
[16:24:54] Arnoud van Dillewijn: But I am doing my best to plan the KB meeting here in Berlin
[16:25:02] kevincolyerwork: It is long and I know english is both of your second langs.
[16:25:08] … Cool
[16:25:28] … Sprint: I had a range of dates from pitpat that he was able to do
[16:25:39] Arnoud van Dillewijn: okay
[16:25:40] kevincolyerwork: I think it is in the office. Did I send it out by email?
[16:25:44] Arnoud van Dillewijn: What are his thoughts?
[16:25:44] kevincolyerwork: or not?
[16:26:01] … He jsut has dates that fit with his uni holidays
[16:26:03] Arnoud van Dillewijn: No, I dont think so.. we chatted about it a bit
[16:26:04] the.matrix.is.everywhere: actually, to cut the corner to ywamkb, i see one potential problem with oral only, that is, if it is not written down it can get changed over time as we might not remember everything 100% correct
[16:26:25] … this is where YWAMKB (can) come in
[16:26:35] kevincolyerwork: (exactly!)
[16:29:50] Arnoud van Dillewijn: If you can send me the possible dates again, than I will make sure we can meet at one of those weeks. (there are some more people able to come and take in our space, so we better be quick...)
[16:29:53] kevincolyerwork: just looking at my diary - seems I did not make a note of when pitpat could meet
[16:30:07] … have to do it tomorrow at office.
[16:30:09] … Silly me
[16:30:33] … but it was from 19th April for a three weeks - but don't hold me to that.
[16:31:24] Mike Stevens: Mike is finally here, jetlagged after teaching in Mexico.
[16:31:43] kevincolyerwork: So I will do that tomorrow morning. Neo - you not around by any chance in Europe this year?
[16:31:43] the.matrix.is.everywhere: hi Mike
[16:31:47] kevincolyerwork: hi mike
[16:32:17] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i might be around in europe but for sure not in April
[16:32:17] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Yeah, I already checked my agenda. The first week of may I need to go to Norway, so that doesnt work. But the other 2 have the potential
[16:32:44] kevincolyerwork: Mike - we are having a loose sort of meeting. Talking about WELC and a week to meet face to face in Berlin re YWAMKB. But please throw in anything you have on your mind RE YWAMKB
[16:33:49] Mike Stevens: okeedokee. I did a promo for KB to the participants in Mexico, people from Belo Horizonte, Hong Kong, US and Mexico - learning genesis conecpts
[16:34:02] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Well, I am coming to WELC. Ticket is booked and I stay even a day xtra to see Dublin a bit more
[16:34:27] kevincolyerwork: YES - GO MIKE!
[16:34:29] the.matrix.is.everywhere: hi Mike, how are you these days? just to cennect the dots, you remember me from Thailand UofN workshop 2007?
[16:34:33] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Thats great to hear!
[16:35:16] kevincolyerwork: @arnoud (I arrive in dublin early monday and leave evening friday so we can hang out a bit and plot the sprint!)
[16:35:19] Mike Stevens: Yes, Mr matrix from Perth
[16:35:33] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ya, that's right
[16:35:36] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Good :)
[16:35:49] Mike Stevens: still got the long hair... mine is fading
[16:36:19] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i keep em long so you don't see them fading so easily ;)
[16:36:46] … anyways, @Kev what are the possibilieties of late may for the sprint?
[16:37:01] … but even that i couldn't promise it'll work
[16:38:09] Arnoud van Dillewijn: You might even go visit Kevin in Brussels.. I already did and Pitpat as well
[16:38:48] kevincolyerwork: He has already come!!!!
[16:38:52] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i did
[16:38:55] kevincolyerwork: He beat you to it!
[16:38:58] … ha!
[16:39:00] the.matrix.is.everywhere: haha
[16:39:30] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Okay, didnt know that.. You supposed to be far far away.. opportunity doesnt come that often
[16:39:33] kevincolyerwork: LAte may possible. But if you think that is not likely for you then we might go earlier. We will welcome you VIRTUALLY of course!
[16:39:49] Arnoud van Dillewijn: But you can also come to Berlin if that is better..
[16:40:13] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i was in Berlin after visiting Kev ;)
[16:40:43] … anyways, just don't realy on me with dates right now, it's all a bit in the air what exactly will happen durin g this time
[16:40:46] Arnoud van Dillewijn: At YWAM?
[16:40:57] the.matrix.is.everywhere: (yes, 1 day visit
[16:41:39] … Dec 08 that was
[16:41:39] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Aha, but well... lots of things changed. We have a new building.. and have grown like crazy.. so certainly worth a visit again
[16:42:01] the.matrix.is.everywhere: (Y)
[16:42:01] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Ah. So thats when I was still in Hurlach
[16:42:10] … Good!
[16:42:30] kevincolyerwork: It is nice to see so many German speakers involved in the KB!!!!
[16:42:50] … OK. We will work on dates and stuff by email
[16:42:52] the.matrix.is.everywhere: wemight need to start a german section
[16:43:02] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Hahaha
[16:43:28] Mike Stevens: go Kev!
[16:43:43] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Hmm.. I am full of plans.. but miss the time to work on it at the moment.. BUT
[16:44:09] … maybe we also need to pass work on to people who can help us to write certain pages
[16:45:01] … I am wondering if we need to talk to people of the UofN and help giving more of the university information
[16:45:07] kevincolyerwork: yes i would like to see more writing - I get stuck for time
[16:45:44] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Do people in Kona know about the KB?
[16:45:54] Mike Stevens: Is this something (UofN) that Hans Kristian Sandtorp could be asked about? He is Tom Bloomers assistant I think
[16:46:27] … Lives by Grimerud base
[16:46:28] the.matrix.is.everywhere: slightly sidetracking, Mike do you have a Google Wave account? And is there any word out there about a module (or whatever it'll be called) to connect Wave to Wiki to update a wiki page with a Google Wave?
We wanted to test run a meeting or something like that sometime in Wave, right? Dates, plans ideas...?
[16:46:49] Mike Stevens: yes, I have wave but not goitten thew hang of it yet
[16:48:19] kevincolyerwork: @mike - what is your wave address?
[16:48:26] Mike Stevens: mikeandlotta.stevens
[16:49:02] kevincolyerwork: @neo-  i haven't looked for an extension but it could promise lots, although the mediawiki model is very different than wave model.
[16:49:50] Mike Stevens: mikeandlotta.stevens@googlewave.com
[16:50:41] kevincolyerwork: A more general comment: I think there is a general cooling of activity (new account sign ups). I normally see a few come after we give presentations (we gained two people recently - probablt about the time you were promoting it mike)
[16:50:54] … the cooling slightly concerns me.
[16:51:12] Mike Stevens: hmmm, too early for maturity
[16:51:15] kevincolyerwork: but I am not sure why
[16:51:44] … or really feel I have lots of energy to invest in promoting - particularly if there is an underlying cause that we don't see!
[16:52:02] Mike Stevens: The 'passionate' ones are already in..... the silent majority are, well, silent
[16:52:06] kevincolyerwork: We will be in Dublin for the welc and that will be a big push for the KB - over 200 staff to  inform!
[16:52:33] … The core has been growing well. (all here are in the core!)
[16:53:00] … So that is why I am only slight concerned. page hits remain steady
[16:54:58] Mike Stevens: It seems the member list is not easy to find these days... thinking of looking to target key people that are still not 'in'....
[16:55:46] kevincolyerwork: member list?
[16:55:54] … Do you mean the Help Desk?
[16:55:58] … Or the user lists?
[16:56:04] … or the top users?
[16:56:04] Mike Stevens: list of users
[16:56:31] kevincolyerwork: Perhaps most active users is more useful than just alphabetical list of users.
[16:57:26] the.matrix.is.everywhere: http://ywamkb.net/kb/index.php/Special:ListUsers
[16:57:31] Mike Stevens: active is relative... thise that browse, those that login, and those that add or edit
[16:57:38] the.matrix.is.everywhere: the list of all users
[16:58:20] kevincolyerwork: http://www.ywamkb.net/kb/index.php/Special:UserScore
[16:58:28] … shows who is active
[16:58:42] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Well, last time I saw there where 7 people who had worked on the KB.. that is a nice score
[16:58:45] kevincolyerwork: I don't think there are statistics kept on logged in users reading pages
[16:59:06] … (hello #8)
[16:59:24] Mike Stevens: you still send a quarterly 'spam' to all users to remind them that the KB is still there, amny forget while in the busyness of life and ministry, so an occaisional 'heads up' reminder is good.
[16:59:32] kevincolyerwork: #19 - you are slacking!!!!!!!
[16:59:47] … Spam?
[16:59:51] … Quaterly?
[17:00:12] … I try to write a newsletter monthy - do you mean that or is there something else?
[17:00:14] Mike Stevens: an idea, needed ? in my comment
[17:00:17] … yes
[17:00:44] kevincolyerwork: be honest - do you feel it is 'spam'?
[17:02:36] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Mustnt be that crazy anymore
[17:03:06] … I didnt send messages for a long time. No news on the facebook group.
[17:03:13] Mike Stevens: not really, gentle use of the word, but most are flooded with mail. I do read the KB ones though
[17:03:23] kevincolyerwork: That's nice!
[17:03:26] … I get it!
[17:03:47] … I felt I made a mistake with moving to the mailman mailing list
[17:04:08] … It seems to generate negative feedback and resentment
[17:04:46] … about 20 people personally asking me to stop them (few bothered to use the automatic unsubscribe, but there you go)
[17:04:57] … It seems to be quite a balancing act
[17:05:06] Mike Stevens: ouch
[17:06:05] kevincolyerwork: I don't want us to get a reputation for spamming users, but I want to draw them in and communicate with them. Such a hard line to follow. Please comment to me if you feel I ever in danger of really getting it wrong!
[17:06:14] the.matrix.is.everywhere: well, there is probably no single tool that works good for all
[17:06:25] kevincolyerwork: exactly
[17:07:10] … I wonder if the "command line" feel of mailman puts less technical folks off? Perhaps they prefer html email, colours etc.
[17:08:21] Mike Stevens: Also, I think the concept of 'wiki' may be hard for many still, They login and look at data, or just look at data from the web without logging in, and assume all the dics are published info. Therefore the active users are only about 7 in a week....?
[17:09:42] … Interesting that the FAQ is "9 most popular page
[17:09:50] … indicates many are 'lost'?
[17:09:55] kevincolyerwork: I expect the editor to reader ratio to be low. Wikipedia is 1:1000 or something. So to expect similar ratio is obvious. However the core editor group is growing - so that is positive!
[17:09:56] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Hahaha
[17:10:16] kevincolyerwork: Quite possible
[17:10:49] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Yeah, I find it amazing we have so many anomynous readers..
[17:11:25] kevincolyerwork: But at least we have content in FAQ, Help etc. I guess you have to be determined to to find it. Although googling works very well. Perhaps a lot of readers get to the site by googling but then are stuck when they get there!
[17:11:36] … I think another reader poll is in need!
[17:12:36] Arnoud van Dillewijn: The WELC would be perfect for that!
[17:13:01] … Have an interactive program for people to check the site and give immidiate feedback
[17:13:19] kevincolyerwork: Yes
[17:13:40] Arnoud van Dillewijn: And also have them give their input on what they would like to have on it
[17:13:46] kevincolyerwork: OK - lets do a bit more research. I will work on another online suvery I think.
[17:14:07] Mike Stevens: interesting though.. there are 309 users? Almost 100 (at a quick guess at counting them) have edited something. That is a high ratio.... But then again, why register if you do not input?
[17:14:08] kevincolyerwork: Pitpat has some ideas on a useability test he is doing that on wave. I shall invite  you to it
[17:14:25] … @mike!
[17:14:29] Mike Stevens: ok
[17:14:29] kevincolyerwork: That is a good question
[17:14:43] … I think they show solidarity
[17:14:53] … I think they dont know they dont have to sign in!
[17:15:26] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Well, becoming a member is easy.. just learn how to work on it is harder, even with all help we have there.
[17:15:27] kevincolyerwork: I think they have an intention and perhaps lack the courage or time or sense of authority to write!
[17:15:30] the.matrix.is.everywhere: it's a phenomenon that i see on pretty much every site, be it wiki, forum, etc.
[17:15:43] kevincolyerwork: @neo - yes I agree
[17:15:44] Arnoud van Dillewijn: It is important we help starters personally
[17:15:46] the.matrix.is.everywhere: people sigh nup for an account but don't do anything with it
[17:16:35] kevincolyerwork: I think Arnoud is right - the personal touch makes a huge difference. marlinesoe for example made a lot of changes but we coached her a lot
[17:16:40] Mike Stevens: perhaps some newbies intro courses :-) or a way to bring new users into a sense of community?
[17:16:47] kevincolyerwork: I try to be very personal and have a lot of fun!
[17:17:08] … I want to do two seminars - a newbies to KB (searching etc) and an editors course!
[17:17:24] … @mike - when you promote it - do you focus on readers or editors or both?
[17:17:48] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB meeting - ending at 30 mins past the hour!"
[17:18:11] the.matrix.is.everywhere: is it possible to actually email people when they signed up? greeting them on their wiki user page is good. but if they never look at it.... but if there is omething popping in their email account they might look at it and start editing their user page
[17:18:38] kevincolyerwork: They get an email straight away (if they have registered one).
[17:18:38] the.matrix.is.everywhere: of course i don't know if the email thing is done already
[17:18:42] kevincolyerwork: Please try it to test!
[17:19:01] Mike Stevens: Kev, first as readers, resource for helping your ministry, then as a wiki you can fill in what is missing or fix misteaks ;-)
[17:19:17] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ok, will do the
[17:19:18] kevincolyerwork: OK.
[17:19:35] … So skewed towards readers!
[17:19:40] … That makes sense.
[17:19:47] … What was feedback from Mexico?
[17:20:01] … (and would any resources we could create help you?)
[17:20:03] Mike Stevens: wow
[17:20:27] … most are unaware of what is 'there'
[17:21:15] kevincolyerwork: yep
[17:21:41] … Were they spanish speakers? How did they relate to it? Did they dare google translate?
[17:22:31] Mike Stevens: 2 spanish speakers.
[17:22:38] … one from Cancun base
[17:22:45] … one from Hong Kong
[17:22:51] Arnoud van Dillewijn: :)
[17:23:05] Mike Stevens: both very good inglish too
[17:23:24] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "Closing time for the YWAMKB meeting in 7 minutes!"
[17:23:40] kevincolyerwork: Better than yours then?!!!!!
[17:24:02] the.matrix.is.everywhere: :D
[17:24:04] Mike Stevens: well, mine has been messed up
[17:24:18] kevincolyerwork: Better than mine I guess!
[17:24:26] … OK
[17:24:31] … Feedback like this is great
[17:24:45] … Would any resources we could create help you?
[17:24:47] Arnoud van Dillewijn: I like it too
[17:25:38] Mike Stevens: Maybe we could highlight the editability of the wiki, more than a database
[17:25:47] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Here in Berlin I havent promoted much.. just because people are crazely busy and I didnt have much time for KB either. BUT when the storm calms down I will bother everyone
[17:26:12] Mike Stevens: do the storms ever calm down in our places?
[17:26:25] … I am moving to a new building too
[17:26:28] kevincolyerwork: My team are nagged by me telling them that the reason they messed up was that they DIDNT read an article posted on the KB!!!!!
[17:26:37] the.matrix.is.everywhere: what means calm down? never heard of...
[17:27:03] kevincolyerwork: @mike - yes, it is not a document database, but a library we write together
[17:27:28] Mike Stevens: yes, I know but does joe user realise that?'
[17:27:47] kevincolyerwork: Well... that is a good point.
[17:27:58] the.matrix.is.everywhere: only if we communicate it like that
[17:28:12] kevincolyerwork: I HOPE that wikipedia is more obvoius to Joe than MS sharepoint
[17:28:13] Mike Stevens: Knowledge base implies 'database' of finalised info to me
[17:28:24] … even though I know better
[17:28:25] kevincolyerwork: @mike - true
[17:28:29] the.matrix.is.everywhere: if i am the first person to tell someone about the kb, this is what will stick in their head
[17:28:48] … if i talk about database they think it's that technical thing
[17:28:59] kevincolyerwork: I think we should test this perception out with user surveys
[17:29:07] Mike Stevens: yes to surveyu
[17:29:10] the.matrix.is.everywhere: so, in a sense, every word counts when communicating about it
[17:29:12] kevincolyerwork: @neo - I know what you mean
[17:29:50] Mike Stevens: 1 min...
[17:29:57] kevincolyerwork: I think it might all come back to a preference for Oral information. Techies are very happy to seek written info, but perhaps Joe YWAMer prefers to hear rather than read?
[17:30:21] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "Time to say our goodbyes!"
[17:30:25] Arnoud van Dillewijn: I actually think we have huge waves at the moment.. soon it is normal big waves. That will be the healthy time.. I think it will come with the WELC and sprint
[17:30:36] Mike Stevens: hmmm also have space for a repository for audio visual library...
[17:30:38] Arnoud van Dillewijn: So perfect Gods timing
[17:31:02] Mike Stevens: yes, nice to be with you all again, sorry I was late
[17:31:15] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Oh yes, we need to pray for the KB. Lets make it a holy page!
[17:31:20] kevincolyerwork: We are sticking lots of youtube videos on there. Happy to link to YWAMpodcast
[17:31:24] … Please pray!
[17:31:31] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Might solve a lot of our problems!
[17:31:32] kevincolyerwork: Anyway - bye for now.
[17:31:40] Mike Stevens: Amen!
[17:31:56] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Bye! See you later! Blessings!
[17:31:59] kevincolyerwork: I will put up a reader survey wave - perhaps we can add questions and assumptions we would like to test to it!
[17:32:06] … Bye and blessings!
[17:32:09] the.matrix.is.everywhere: have a good night, when night comes around your place ;)
[17:32:18] Mike Stevens: blessings and hugs to all (hug)
[17:32:23] kevincolyerwork: Mike: thanks for coming - very much appreciate all you are doing!
[17:32:28] the.matrix.is.everywhere: my alarm goes off in 5 hours
[17:32:36] … bless you all
[17:32:37] kevincolyerwork: sleep well and quickly neo!
[17:32:40] Mike Stevens: sleep well my German friend
[17:32:48] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i will, i can promise you that
[17:33:02] … (h) you all
[17:33:17] … cu sometime