YWAMKnowledgeBase:Meeting 20090608

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The meeting is held here: <skype action="chat">kevincolyerwork</skype> at 16h00 GMT+1 on 8 June 2009.


You can put ideas here for what we want to talk about during the KB meeting. Anyone who wants to join in is welcome (put ~~~~: before your comment and you have the lead on that discussion!): (some or all of these)

  1. Sprint - Outcomes
    • Review "Ongoing work and Todo's" following the Sprint
    • Community - todo
    • Maintenance - todo
    • Publicity - todo
    • Knowledge Management - todo
  2. Proposed next Meeting: ????????? Monday 20th July @ 16h00 GMT+1


Just so we manage to get some business done here are a few rules:

  1. Remember that a lot of attendees are writing in their second language - there fore ignore all unimportant spellings and also try to leave give more time for them to respond. Lets not 'shout' over the voices of others by bombarding people with messages.
  2. Try to stay on topic! Jokes and Red herrings are fun but probably not helpful in a chat context!
  3. The Chairman (today its Kevin) will set the topic. Try to follow it. TYPING THINGS IN CAPITALS IS THE CHAIRMANS WAY OF CALLING FOR ORDER.
  4. Voting: if asked to vote please vote +1 for yes and -1 for no. 0 or nothing is an abstention.
  5. Enjoy the meeting - you can have private chats with another person - just try to pay attention to the main flow of things too.


Please write your apologies here and any comments you wish to make but will not be able to. (Please sign by entering a --~~~~)


Please put your name here if you are planning on coming to the meeting.

  • Kev-The-Hasty UK, BE
  • Arnoud NL, DE
  • Neo DE, AU - Finally I'm (somewhat) back and willl try to be at the meeting, too


Present: Apologies:

Action points:

  • Kevin to make a janitorial list of tasks for the 4 work days on the KB
  • Arnoud to pick a wednesday in late July/August to be a work day for the KB
  • Promo stickers and T-shirts: Arnoud - get a quote, Neo - work on design


[16:15:10] kevincolyerwork: Hi
[16:15:15] … Ready to rock?
[16:15:18] Arnoud van Dillewijn: I didn't see you, now I see you are here
[16:15:30] kevincolyerwork: Now I see you too - you were greyed out.
[16:15:47] … The Linux Skype client is rubbish - that's Skypes fault not Linux's
[16:15:50] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Just for a moment I thought I had to start it the conference myself
[16:15:55] the.matrix.is.everywhere: well, skype has some issues with recognizing the correct online status at times
[16:15:56] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB meeting"
[16:16:04] kevincolyerwork: Yep
[16:16:08] … It is a pest!
[16:16:15] the.matrix.is.everywhere: that isn't only a linux issue btw
[16:16:17] kevincolyerwork: Hey, have you heard of Google Wave?
[16:16:40] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i might have heard it, but not sure just now
[16:16:49] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Nope
[16:17:05] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i'm not a huge fan of Google, i must confess
[16:17:18] kevincolyerwork: one moment
[16:17:29] … back now
[16:17:35] … It is going to be fab
[16:17:41] … AND Free and Open
[16:17:46] Arnoud van Dillewijn: I see there is a vid about it
[16:17:52] kevincolyerwork: Read the Video
[16:18:11] the.matrix.is.everywhere: and searched through for better ads ;)
[16:18:39] Arnoud van Dillewijn: It's an hour and 20 minutes long
[16:18:58] kevincolyerwork: It is very cool. It will help us hugely
[16:19:14] the.matrix.is.everywhere: what's in in a nutshell?
[16:19:18] kevincolyerwork: Anyway - when it comes out I will host a server here
[16:19:22] … It is like and email
[16:19:24] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Okay, I will need to take some time for that
[16:19:25] kevincolyerwork: and im
[16:19:29] … and picture sharing
[16:19:34] … all in one
[16:19:39] … but not proprietart
[16:19:57] … It allows collaborative editing in real time
[16:20:00] … etc
[16:20:10] … like, IM, Gobby and email in one
[16:20:26] … There are publishing links to blogs etc via "Robots"
[16:20:37] … Plus the best spell checker ever (context sensitive)
[16:20:46] … And a real time translation system
[16:20:58] … Watch the video - it is awesome. Wave.google.com
[16:21:11] the.matrix.is.everywhere: hmmm, sounds interesting, and in a sense very google-like
[16:21:18] Arnoud van Dillewijn: That's really cool! I love to communicate in any language!
[16:21:23] kevincolyerwork: Yes, but they will make the protocols free and open
[16:21:28] … so no control
[16:21:37] … like email is a free protocol
[16:21:49] … and google talk is the open Jabber protocol
[16:21:52] … etc
[16:21:56] the.matrix.is.everywhere: actually, i thought about it for a while what it would mean for me to set up a chat server based on Jabber
[16:22:05] kevincolyerwork: Its very easy
[16:22:07] … I think
[16:22:21] … There is a gateway server that connect to other jabber servers
[16:23:09] the.matrix.is.everywhere: we will see how it'll turn out
[16:23:42] kevincolyerwork: Exactly. But I will keep you posted.
[16:23:48] … Anyway BACK TO THE KB
[16:23:57] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ya, just wanted to say that
[16:24:00] kevincolyerwork: How are we all post SPRINT
[16:24:04] … ?
[16:24:42] * kevincolyerwork invited reblevins
[16:24:51] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Hmm.. I run out on Belgium chocolate..
[16:24:59] kevincolyerwork: That is sad news!
[16:25:13] the.matrix.is.everywhere: hahaha, so that's what you guys did :D
[16:25:25] kevincolyerwork: No, there was beer too!
[16:25:30] the.matrix.is.everywhere: Hi, Rodney
[16:25:54] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Welcome Rodney!
[16:25:55] the.matrix.is.everywhere: lol, beer and choc, i missed something i guess
[16:25:58] kevincolyerwork: NEO: any views on what we did!
[16:26:00] … ?
[16:26:10] … At Sprint? Do you like the direction?
[16:26:40] the.matrix.is.everywhere: anyways, unfortunately i couldn't participate at all
[16:26:49] … but what i saw looked very good
[16:26:59] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Tell us
[16:27:05] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i like the creative white board images ;)
[16:27:05] kevincolyerwork: Can you be more specific?
[16:27:25] … I can mail them to you to wallpaper you appartment. Biggi will like it!
[16:27:43] the.matrix.is.everywhere: hmmm, i would need to review exactly, sorry, i'm a bit unprepared
[16:27:49] Arnoud van Dillewijn: :D
[16:27:58] kevincolyerwork: Tisk!
[16:28:09] the.matrix.is.everywhere: Biggi yes, the owners of the flat, no
[16:28:10] Arnoud van Dillewijn: That's okay.. have a look.. or a feel..
[16:28:26] kevincolyerwork: This page summarises: http://www.ywamkb.net/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Sprint2009_Accomplishments#On_going_work_and_Todo.27s
[16:28:38] … and is what we need to discuss today
[16:30:06] the.matrix.is.everywhere: there is actually one specific point in there that I need to preach to myself a bit more
[16:30:11] … content before beauty
[16:30:16] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB meeting - Goal - to improve the communication in the community"
[16:30:26] kevincolyerwork: I think you are CONTENT-ful!
[16:30:28] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i personally thing that is very important
[16:30:41] … even though i'm really bad at it
[16:30:49] kevincolyerwork: We had a discussion with a guy from Brazil who saw it the other way!
[16:31:01] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i always want to be perfect before i put something up
[16:31:15] kevincolyerwork: It was a bit tough explaining it to him. I am part writiing a paper with some explanaitions of our design decisions
[16:31:23] the.matrix.is.everywhere: that's why there is so little from me
[16:31:36] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Well, that's what we all want. But it is better to start an article and work it out in the days to come
[16:31:37] kevincolyerwork: Ido you know the 80/20 rule?
[16:32:01] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ya, that's exactly the point!
[16:32:12] kevincolyerwork: 80 % of the work can be done in 20% of the time. The remaining 20% of the work takes another 80% of the time!!!!
[16:32:17] Arnoud van Dillewijn: 80/20?
[16:32:40] the.matrix.is.everywhere: but these folks who tend towards perfectionism are a.....
[16:32:50] … hang on, i talk about myself
[16:32:53] kevincolyerwork: Germanic!
[16:33:01] Arnoud van Dillewijn: True, laying out the big lines and fill in the details later
[16:33:08] kevincolyerwork: Bless - how I need completer finishers around me!
[16:33:18] the.matrix.is.everywhere: no really, i think it's important to communicate to people that little content is better then no content
[16:33:26] kevincolyerwork: exactly
[16:33:27] the.matrix.is.everywhere: improvment can always happen
[16:33:35] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Yes
[16:33:39] kevincolyerwork: It is surprising how people are reluctant to write for the KB...
[16:33:50] … They think they have little to offer
[16:33:53] … I tell them
[16:34:06] … That their little is more that the experts knowledge
[16:34:13] … As the experts are not writing anything!
[16:34:22] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Haha
[16:34:54] kevincolyerwork: I have been told that if you study any subject intensively for 6 months you can acheive a profound depth of understanding
[16:35:12] … Starting a topic on the KB and researching it intensivly can make you an expert
[16:35:29] … or very dull - one of the two
[16:35:41] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ya, that's true
[16:35:55] kevincolyerwork: So on with the meeting!?
[16:35:54] the.matrix.is.everywhere: and at the same time that knowledge is kinda lost when not shared
[16:36:03] kevincolyerwork: (Exacly)
[16:36:49] … Arnoud?
[16:37:03] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Sorry, I had to open a door and get some tea..
[16:37:10] kevincolyerwork: Big cup eh?
[16:37:40] … Weekly Skype meetings "Hour of Power" (Aim to connect and chat with people) ARNOUD + others 
 Monthly Skype Meetings - (Agendared and business orientated) KEVIN and ARNOUD 
 Facebook group - Stimulation ARNOUD 
 Mailing List (now open for ALL KBians) and Monthly Email KEVIN and ARNOUD + 
 Button on main page "Join us on Facebook" and "Join the mailing list" KEVIN 
 Blank profile on User pages for users to fill in ARNOUD
[16:38:10] the.matrix.is.everywhere: so, to bring it to the point, as aditional ToDo, how can we motivate people to write/start articles?
and no, I don't have an answer to that question...
[16:38:20] kevincolyerwork: 1 Weekly Skype meetings "Hour of Power" (Aim to connect and chat with people) ARNOUD + others 
2 Monthly Skype Meetings - (Agendared and business orientated) KEVIN and ARNOUD 
3 Facebook group - Stimulation ARNOUD 
4 Mailing List (now open for ALL KBians) and Monthly Email KEVIN and ARNOUD + 
5 Button on main page "Join us on Facebook" and "Join the mailing list" KEVIN 
6 Blank profile on User pages for users to fill in ARNOUD
[16:38:33] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Door again
[16:38:43] kevincolyerwork: NEO: I think we are starting to create more topics that we need writers for
[16:39:03] … The new Threads (or Paths) as Malin suggests
[16:39:15] … Is a way of saying these are the gaps write this.
[16:39:46] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Hey, I did nr 6
[16:39:47] kevincolyerwork: The WantedPages page summerises these: http://www.ywamkb.net/kb/index.php/Special:Wantedpages
[16:40:22] … Arnoud: (I know - good work) I did 5, 4 and 2
[16:41:48] … what about the hour of power idea? Do you think you can do that?
[16:42:31] Arnoud van Dillewijn: At the moment not yet
[16:42:57] kevincolyerwork: Would it be possible? Is there anyway we can facilitate this?
[16:43:04] Arnoud van Dillewijn: I really need to set a time for myself to be online
[16:43:13] kevincolyerwork: ;)
[16:43:23] Arnoud van Dillewijn: So when I have a good schedule for myself I can invite all to come and join
[16:43:24] kevincolyerwork: Do I need to ask Tobi VERY nicely!
[16:43:27] … ?
[16:43:35] … Cool
[16:44:05] … Let's keep that pending. But the online time we spent during the sprint was valuable for the encouragement of Malin
[16:44:13] … So I think there is much potential
[16:44:17] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Sure, but my job hasn't started yet here. But next month it might be possible
[16:44:31] kevincolyerwork: I guess that point 3 above is also true
[16:44:37] the.matrix.is.everywhere: can i just ask, what exactly is behnd that idea? sort of like the monthly meetings? just between individuals and not as planed like the monthlies?
[16:44:50] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Yeah, and I also did spend some time with Malin to get things clearer for her
[16:45:03] kevincolyerwork: Neo: yes
[16:45:24] the.matrix.is.everywhere: (y) great idea that is
[16:45:32] kevincolyerwork: It is not for agenda but to help the community engage with the KB - as users and preferably as contributers
[16:45:50] … we noticed the Facebook comm. is bigger than the KB registered users
[16:45:58] … so we have a broader community
[16:46:14] … and Arnoud loves working there to help and draw people in
[16:46:43] the.matrix.is.everywhere: haha, even more impressive since not everyone on the KB is on facebook
[16:47:27] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB meeting - Maintenance
- Goal - Improve the general upkeep and de-cruft."
[16:48:34] kevincolyerwork: 1 Clarify tasks and training to do the work KEVIN 
2 Set Goals for tidiness of wiki KEVIN 
3 Set 4 days for maintenance to invite whole community to (Spring clean etc) ARNOUD 
4 Calculate Bus Factor and devise strategy to reduce it to 0 KEVIN
[16:49:12] … MAINTENANCE: I have not done much in this area since sprint
[16:49:23] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Me neither..
[16:49:27] … Details, you know
[16:49:50] kevincolyerwork: I think point 3 is important for maintaining momentum
[16:50:26] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Could be combined with the hour of power.. for a summer cleaning
[16:50:33] kevincolyerwork: And it doesn't require us to be available 24 hours - just to agree to do some work that day
[16:51:03] … if we list tasks to do before the day - then people can know what to do
[16:52:00] Arnoud van Dillewijn: We can make a check list for it and than use v's to see what's done..
[16:52:20] … Any main clean ups, you already know of?
[16:52:22] kevincolyerwork: I am happy to set that list up
[16:52:46] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Great
[16:52:47] kevincolyerwork: yeah: http://www.ywamkb.net/kb/index.php/Category:!Wiki_Site_Administration
[16:53:36] … But what about proposing a day late July/August?
[16:54:22] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Yeah, we can do that.. or even make it a week. To be a bit more flexi with time
[16:55:36] kevincolyerwork: I think a week will leave people a bit lonely
[16:55:45] Arnoud van Dillewijn: That's true
[16:55:57] kevincolyerwork: if it is in a day you have quicker feedback and collaboration gains and gives energy
[16:56:08] … A week would be a bit to slow I think
[16:56:25] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Let me pick a wednesday..
[16:56:29] kevincolyerwork: OK
[16:57:10] … Why not get back to us on that - why not use the KB mailing list. I would like people other than me use it.
[16:57:26] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Good
[16:57:52] kevincolyerwork: Put this link in : http://www.ywamkb.net/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Work_Day's_Task_List
[16:58:07] … SHALL WE MOVE ON?
[16:58:15] Arnoud van Dillewijn: yep
[16:58:53] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB meeting - Publicity - 
- Goal - Improve the general upkeep and de-cruft."
[16:59:06] kevincolyerwork: 1 Think in terms of regions 
2 Will continue this in monthly meetings - standing topic
[16:59:19] … So any fresh publicity ideas????????
[16:59:30] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Good, how is promo going Down Under?
[17:00:03] kevincolyerwork: (note - i need to leave in 15 mins)
[17:00:31] … I think Neo has dropped off. It is late down there!!!!
[17:00:32] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i guess i just had a little nap here, sorry, slightly tired
[17:00:39] kevincolyerwork: I WAS RIGHT!
[17:00:49] … (party)
[17:01:20] … It is so nice that you even take the time - I feel privileged you take the time
[17:01:24] the.matrix.is.everywhere: well, promo is a bit hard for me here, the base here isn't really getting into it
[17:01:36] … and the next base is a few 1000KM away
[17:01:59] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Ok, but there is internet connection, right?
[17:03:17] kevincolyerwork: I find it hard to get my own base interested. Today one person showed me a DTS curriculum that was a bit wierd. I showed her the DTS Curriculum page. (She had one that was nothing like the old OR new curr.) I find it hard to get people to look on the KB first.
[17:03:21] the.matrix.is.everywhere: that's right, we have internet ;)
[17:03:56] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Yeah, but maybe we mustn't worry to much about our own base
[17:04:22] kevincolyerwork: My way of gently nagging when people ask me for stuff is "Well there is a page on the KB about that"
[17:04:51] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Exactly we can put that on a poster or something.. T-shirt.. or banner
[17:04:57] kevincolyerwork: Or if there should be a page but isn't - "I'll write about it and put it on the KB for you". Then I give them the link!
[17:05:06] … I would like a T-shirt
[17:05:31] Arnoud van Dillewijn: In Ostkreuz we happen to have a T-shirt printer next door
[17:05:47] kevincolyerwork: What do you think about quoting for some T-shirts?
[17:06:04] … NEO's logo for the promo cards is nice.
[17:06:08] the.matrix.is.everywhere: T-Shirt sounds nice, and some stickers
[17:06:26] Arnoud van Dillewijn: I like that! Pictures that go along with that as well, would be great. Just give me the ideas and I will look if we can print something..
[17:06:27] kevincolyerwork: yeah  - every DTS toilet should have stickers in it!
[17:06:49] … Or a badge for every PC in YWAM?
[17:07:08] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Great! I love those ideas!
[17:07:09] kevincolyerwork: Actually what about a sticker for Laptop lids?
[17:07:19] … I would have one and force all my staff to have one!
[17:07:27] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Haha
[17:07:27] kevincolyerwork: About the apple logo size
[17:08:04] … ARNOUD: can you get quotes. NEO: can you mock up something from the promo cards?
[17:08:25] the.matrix.is.everywhere: good thing I'm not your staff, i don't like stickers on my computer ;)
[17:08:42] kevincolyerwork: Notice boards perhaps instead!!!!
[17:08:43] the.matrix.is.everywhere: well, what about using the busniness cards as stickers as well?
[17:08:44] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Bout time than to change that
[17:09:11] kevincolyerwork: Or something as small as that
[17:09:56] Arnoud van Dillewijn: We can print stuff in the location we are at.. or just find the cheapest place of course
[17:10:07] kevincolyerwork: I like this idea because: Stickers are cheap. Can be stuck anywhere when we visit. Can go on computers, (where the URL is relevant) or office boards, can be cheaply ,mailed to places.
[17:10:23] the.matrix.is.everywhere: not too different though, if people see the same design, they knownwhat it is about
[17:10:30] kevincolyerwork: exsactly
[17:10:43] Arnoud van Dillewijn: But I do like new designs too
[17:11:03] kevincolyerwork: We produce a PDF of the recommened design. Then people can ask a local printer to do the work for them
[17:11:03] Arnoud van Dillewijn: We need to keep in mind we are a young organisation..
[17:11:08] … Future KBians..
[17:11:37] kevincolyerwork: But I can see myself handing out stickers to leaders at the next LT meeting regionally...
[17:12:07] Arnoud van Dillewijn: With a T-shirt on
[17:12:24] kevincolyerwork: I also have never got a paper letter from a leader with an enclosure like stickers. It would be interesting to receive and a fairly cheap
[17:12:50] … So Is this DECIDED then? Arnoud - get a quote, Neo - work on design????
[17:13:17] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Yeah, can work on both.. don't forget my creativity side..
[17:13:19] kevincolyerwork: ?????
[17:13:28] … Be CREATIVE!
[17:13:45] the.matrix.is.everywhere: I will try my best, but I heavily depend on your guy's input
[17:13:49] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB meeting - Knowledge Management
Goal - make the knowledge more accessible so visitors are helped and become more effective"
[17:13:50] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Hey, you got to run
[17:13:56] kevincolyerwork: (Neo - you have it!!!!)
[17:14:03] … (1 have 5 mins)
[17:14:13] the.matrix.is.everywhere: k
[17:14:47] kevincolyerwork: How do you tink the Threads are going? Do you like the completed "Start a New Team thread?"
[17:15:37] Arnoud van Dillewijn: I love the steps..
[17:16:04] kevincolyerwork: I wish i had read it before I started in Plymouth!
[17:16:23] Arnoud van Dillewijn: You can try again, Kev
[17:16:30] kevincolyerwork: I may just!
[17:16:51] Arnoud van Dillewijn: We keep on thinking starting new things..
[17:16:58] kevincolyerwork: I have to say - backwards planning the article was very helpful
[17:17:22] Arnoud van Dillewijn: That works really well
[17:17:22] kevincolyerwork: I feel like I can now engage to fill in the gaps. It is quite motivational for me to write for the KB
[17:17:52] … Any I think it makes the KB less random and appear more purposeful (specially to first time users)
[17:18:11] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Yep
[17:18:43] … So time to wrap up?
[17:19:17] kevincolyerwork: I think so
[17:19:22] … THANK YOU ALL
[17:19:32] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Great! It's been a good meeting!
[17:19:33] the.matrix.is.everywhere: my bed thinks so too
[17:19:36] kevincolyerwork: There is still so much to chat about
[17:19:45] … but we must carry on next time!
[17:19:55] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Good, we'll do
[17:19:58] kevincolyerwork: And we can continue during the month.
[17:20:14] … Can I suggest we use the mailing list server to continue discussion?
[17:20:17] the.matrix.is.everywhere: is the next proposed date confirmed?
[17:20:19] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Jep, so Neo feel welcome to contact us any time
[17:20:39] kevincolyerwork: Date is confirmed if you think it is. I am available for it
[17:21:07] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ok, and I'll see that I figure out that mailing list thing, however that works
[17:21:21] kevincolyerwork: It is easy - see main page of kb
[17:21:32] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ya (y)
[17:21:35] kevincolyerwork: You just send an email to the address there!