YWAMKnowledgeBase:Meeting 20080505

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Statistics Report: statistics @ 25/1/2008 net gain of 26 pages 8 users, 5,803 page hits and 172 edits in just 21 days. Numbers are picking up again!

The meeting is held here: <skype action="chat">kevincolyerwork</skype> at 15h00 GMT on 05 May, 2008.


You can put ideas here for what we want to talk about during the KB meeting. Anyone who wants to join in is welcome (put ~~~~: before your comment and you have the lead on that discussion!): (some or all of these)
User:Edvdveer noted this problem with logging in.
  1. Follow up from last meeting
  2. Thoughts about changing the copyright license. See YWAMKnowledgeBase:Copyright.
  3. Any feedback from CRIT and other YWAM meetings we have been promoting the KB
  4. Problem's changing passwords - user User:Edvdveer noted this problem with logging in. Has anyone else discovered problems logging in and registering?
  5. As always: promotion!
  6. Suggestions for improvements.
  7. Proposed next Meeting: Monday 9th June @ 16h00 GMT+2


Just so we manage to get some business done here are a few rules:

  1. Remember that a lot of attendees are writing in their second language - there fore ignore all unimportant spellings and also try to leave give more time for them to respond. Lets not 'shout' over the voices of others by bombarding people with messages.
  2. Try to stay on topic! Jokes and Red herrings are fun but probably not helpful in a chat context!
  3. The Chairman (today its Kevin) will set the topic. Try to follow it. TYPING THINGS IN CAPITALS IS THE CHAIRMANS WAY OF CALLING FOR ORDER.
  4. Voting: if asked to vote please vote +1 for yes and -1 for no. 0 or nothing is an abstention.
  5. Enjoy the meeting - you can have private chats with another person - just try to pay attention to the main flow of things too.


Please write your apologies here and any comments you wish to make but will not be able to. (Please sign by entering a --~~~~)


Please put your name here if you are planning on coming to the meeting.

  • Kev-The-Hasty UK, BE
  • steve-the-not-so-hasty 13:27, 5 May 2008 (CEST) NZ,UK
  • Adelaartjes, Dutch, Norway
  • Neo - will try to be there but it will be pretty late here, so don't wait for me DE, AU
  • BelindaLoo - hailing from Harpenden, Dutch, UK
  • Bobkeeler (??)
  • Rodney Blevins (Dutch and in NL)


Present: Kevin, Steve, Bob, Steve, Belinda, Arnoud, Belinda Apologies: Chris Barton

Agenda items:

  1. Follow up from last meeting
  2. Thoughts about changing the copyright license.
  3. Any feedback from CRIT and other YWAM meetings we have been promoting the KB
  4. Problem's changing passwords
  5. Promotion! And suggestions for improvements.
  6. Proposed next Meeting: Monday 9th June @ 16h00 GMT+2

Action Points:

  • Steve to talk to Lynn about KB
  • Kevin to keep an eye on the password/login issue
  • Kevin to redo the welcome videos - but needs some help please!


[16:11:29] kevincolyerwork: good after noon and WELCOME EVERYONE!
[16:11:33] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Hello, I wasn't awake yet!
[16:11:46] Steve Sullivan: hello arnoud
[16:11:48] kevincolyerwork: Have you all read the Agenda and the Etiquette guide? http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Meeting_20080505
[16:11:50] the.matrix.is.everywhere: good morning, have a cuppa
[16:12:04] Belinda van de Loo: yes, you got my attention with the CAPS
[16:12:08] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB meeting - NOW STARTING!"
[16:12:14] kevincolyerwork: OK
[16:12:22] Steve Sullivan: I don't think it's fair to expect people from australia to follow ettiquette
[16:12:46] the.matrix.is.everywhere: good thing that I'm actually german
[16:12:47] Belinda van de Loo: I'm going to use my "Mom voice" in a minute here
[16:13:11] Steve Sullivan: how old are you Bel?
[16:13:15] … sorry
[16:13:23] Belinda van de Loo: ;)
[16:13:35] Steve Sullivan: the WELC was terrific but for the broadband failure
[16:13:46] kevincolyerwork: Don't invite that guy again
[16:13:48] Belinda van de Loo: I wasn't at the last meeting but I assume it was evaluating WELC?
[16:14:00] kevincolyerwork: No - last meeting was online
[16:14:17] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Britt says hi to you all!
[16:14:20] kevincolyerwork: Basically I think there is nothing to say so I will move to item 2
[16:14:24] Steve Sullivan: hi to britt
[16:14:27] kevincolyerwork: Please greet All of Britt
[16:15:06] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Oh, well, stop greetings now.. what did you talk about last time!
[16:15:17] kevincolyerwork: OK: ITEM 2
[16:15:21] Steve Sullivan: how does changing the license affect our ability to edit others mateiral
[16:15:22] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i guess i wasn't at the last meeting, so nothing to say
[16:15:24] kevincolyerwork: Thoughts about changing the copyright license. See YWAMKnowledgeBase:Copyright.
[16:15:39] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB meeting - ITEM 2 - Thoughts about changing the copyright license."
[16:15:42] Belinda van de Loo: it was changing the password that gave probs, right?
[16:15:43] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Ah, I see
[16:16:01] kevincolyerwork: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Copyright
[16:16:09] Steve Sullivan: how does changing the license affect our ability to edit others' material
[16:16:10] kevincolyerwork: This is the link about which we are discussing
[16:16:17] … It doesn't
[16:16:42] * kevincolyerwork invited bobkeeler
[16:17:27] kevincolyerwork: The change is very similar. What it does affect is what people can do with material on the site.
[16:17:28] Steve Sullivan: how then do we give credit to someone for writing a part of an article?
[16:17:52] kevincolyerwork: @BOB: hi
[16:18:01] bobkeeler: hi all
[16:18:04] kevincolyerwork: Credit is always given on history page!
[16:18:07] bobkeeler: sorry late
[16:18:15] kevincolyerwork: pas de problem!
[16:18:18] Belinda van de Loo: and the changes are always accessible
[16:18:33] Steve Sullivan: unless we delete the history
[16:18:33] the.matrix.is.everywhere: maybe can someone layout the advantages / disadvantages of the different copyrights?
[16:18:34] Belinda van de Loo: so the originator/author of the work does get credite
[16:19:03] kevincolyerwork: Perhaps I can summarise the current situ and the proposed changes?
[16:19:09] Belinda van de Loo: good idea
[16:19:17] kevincolyerwork: Currently: we use the Gnu free Document Licence
[16:19:33] … This is what Wikipedia started with 'cos it was the only FDL avail at the time
[16:20:14] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Okay
[16:20:23] kevincolyerwork: It gives rights to copy the site to all PROVIDED they give the same rights to others. In other words you can take the work, even print it BUT you must allow others to take that work you create and do likewise with it.
[16:20:31] … BUT it is a bit more complicated
[16:20:46] … because it was desgined for manuals for Free Software
[16:20:50] … So it is complex
[16:21:15] Steve Sullivan: free software manuals are good!
[16:21:29] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ok
[16:21:43] kevincolyerwork: The proposal is to change to a Creative Commons licence which is much simpler and is more designed for this sort of work. Infact the Wikipedia is doing this too as GFDL is too specialised and CC offers a simpler freedom (but almost identical)
[16:21:46] Belinda van de Loo: but this line: For any reuse or distribution, you must make clear to others the license terms of this work.  Does clarify the purpose, right?
[16:22:01] … i mean, the useage
[16:22:03] … not purpose
[16:22:17] kevincolyerwork: Exactly BvdL, that is why the site currently has a GFDL badge in the corner.
[16:23:04] Belinda van de Loo: Well, no one can guarantee that people will do that (add the link) but it is stated and so, covered
[16:23:15] kevincolyerwork: CC makes it simpler. It would be a Creative Commons - By Attribution - Share Alike licence.
[16:23:18] Belinda van de Loo: looks adequate for what we're aiming at, I think
[16:23:40] … CCBASA
[16:23:45] … kielbasa?
[16:24:16] kevincolyerwork: Of course ANYONE can already abuse our right as owners of our work to copy it but when we started the KB we wanted lots of multiplication of the work. this just makes sure multipliers keep on multipling and add back to us (and others)
[16:24:18] Steve Sullivan: No Polish please
[16:24:53] kevincolyerwork: CC-BA-SA = Creative Commons - By Attribution - Share Alike licence
[16:25:03] … So any thoughts or objections?
[16:25:19] Belinda van de Loo: well, the main idea remains to release, not restrict... yet it gives a good structure to cover our backsides, if necess.
[16:25:21] Steve Sullivan: my attitude is that once I've put it on the kb it is freely available to others
[16:25:31] Belinda van de Loo: I always say - you know who is in charge when something goes wrong
[16:25:46] kevincolyerwork: This is not a statement of liability!
[16:25:47] Belinda van de Loo: yes, I think that's clearly stated, Steve
[16:25:50] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ok, as a fool-proof one-liner, what would we gain and/or what would we loose by the license change?
[16:26:01] Belinda van de Loo: I mean, I think people really get that when they first sign on
[16:26:25] Steve Sullivan: i would hate to die with something that I could have given away. What issues are there with liability?
[16:26:31] Belinda van de Loo: worse case scenario
[16:26:42] kevincolyerwork: Loose: confusion in actually using the GFDL. Gain: we can incorporate other CC-BY-SA stuff
[16:26:50] Arnoud van Dillewijn: I like that, Matrix.. Plusses & Minusses
[16:26:51] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i'm not really familiar with license/copyright stuff nor the sort of language that it's using....
[16:26:53] Belinda van de Loo: Lose, not loose, guys
[16:27:03] kevincolyerwork: Worse case - is hard to define
[16:27:19] Belinda van de Loo: well, I think we need to go there
[16:27:20] Steve Sullivan: must not use loose language -- too much to lose
[16:27:25] kevincolyerwork: We currently have a worser case. This just makes it 10% less confusing!
[16:27:26] Belinda van de Loo: before we sign up
[16:27:48] … what's the worst that could happen by the change, I mean?
[16:27:51] kevincolyerwork: Well, you already signed up to the GFDL when you added stuff...
[16:27:57] Belinda van de Loo: true, I remember
[16:27:58] Steve Sullivan: should we have a check box for people to tick when they sign up
[16:28:02] kevincolyerwork: No
[16:28:14] Steve Sullivan: no, what?
[16:28:16] the.matrix.is.everywhere: @Arnoud: plusses and minusses is probably my analytical german ming, that's why i'm asking
[16:28:18] kevincolyerwork: It is on the bottom of every edit page, each page has copyright details
[16:28:29] Steve Sullivan: ok, I'm happy then
[16:28:36] kevincolyerwork: I know people don't read everything but it is all there!
[16:28:41] Belinda van de Loo: so glad you're happy
[16:28:51] … yes, same is written on CDs... no copying!
[16:28:59] kevincolyerwork: Yep. I think it is a good move.
[16:29:07] … CDs?
[16:29:10] Belinda van de Loo: but what is the practice.  The copyright is there for legal purposes
[16:29:19] Steve Sullivan: belinda, feel free to copy these words i'm writing down
[16:29:20] Belinda van de Loo: copyright info
[16:29:23] … details
[16:29:24] kevincolyerwork: This would be PLEASE copy but do unto others...
[16:29:35] Steve Sullivan: I agree kev
[16:29:42] Belinda van de Loo: honor system
[16:30:00] kevincolyerwork: This would be PLEASE copy but do unto others with your work likewise
[16:30:09] Belinda van de Loo: with a copyright disclaimer...
[16:30:10] … got it
[16:30:16] … I got it before, too
[16:30:18] … I get it
[16:30:19] Steve Sullivan: copyleft
[16:30:57] kevincolyerwork: Yes the disclaimer states the purpose... ('Copyleft' is kind of accurate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft)
[16:31:06] Belinda van de Loo: yes: please copy... but copy the link and info, too
[16:31:26] kevincolyerwork: That is the BY attribution bit.
[16:31:45] Arnoud van Dillewijn: I love the symbol..
[16:32:10] kevincolyerwork: I propose  announce the change for a month BUT we make a final vote at a next meeting...
[16:32:19] Steve Sullivan: perfect
[16:32:29] bobkeeler: great
[16:32:33] Belinda van de Loo: what a good chairman you are!  +1
[16:32:35] kevincolyerwork: CAN WE VOTE ON THIS?
[16:32:42] … +1
[16:32:43] Steve Sullivan: +1
[16:32:52] the.matrix.is.everywhere: so, as i understand it, everything will still be freely available, just the legal terms are easier to understand/handle
[16:33:04] kevincolyerwork: that is right neo
[16:33:11] the.matrix.is.everywhere: k
[16:33:17] … +1
[16:33:28] bobkeeler: =1
[16:33:34] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Makes me curious what will follow +1
[16:33:36] bobkeeler: +
[16:33:44] kevincolyerwork: Great!
[16:33:50] Steve Sullivan: + Ð
[16:33:52] kevincolyerwork: ITEM 3 Any feedback from CRIT and other YWAM meetings we have been promoting the KB?
[16:34:01] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB meeting -ITEM 3 Any feedback from CRIT and other YWAM meetings we have been promoting the KB?"
[16:34:13] kevincolyerwork: Anyone go to CRIT?
[16:34:24] Belinda van de Loo: I'm a bit concerned about one of the CRIT initiatives that Rodney described
[16:34:26] the.matrix.is.everywhere: not me...
[16:34:33] Belinda van de Loo: it seemed to be duplicating the YWAMKB
[16:34:39] Steve Sullivan: really
[16:34:43] kevincolyerwork: what was that BvdL
[16:34:45] … ?
[16:34:54] Belinda van de Loo: I thot it could be absorbed by the YWAMKB and not function separately.
[16:35:01] … He said he spoke to you KEv about it
[16:35:11] kevincolyerwork: What was that?
[16:35:16] … The EUROCOM?
[16:35:17] Belinda van de Loo: I'm trying to remember specifics
[16:35:23] … groping for that at the moment
[16:35:27] … but I did speak to him about it
[16:35:29] kevincolyerwork: EuroCom Pak?
[16:35:33] Belinda van de Loo: maybe
[16:35:43] kevincolyerwork: It is already in the KB!
[16:35:47] Belinda van de Loo: it was a communications initiative...
[16:35:53] kevincolyerwork: Yep that is it!
[16:36:01] Belinda van de Loo: wait,... I'lll find it
[16:36:08] kevincolyerwork: There is no duplication - I invited them all in!
[16:36:42] … http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/EuroCom_Communication_Package
[16:37:02] Belinda van de Loo: nope, it's not that
[16:37:12] … it's something else developed by Rodney and 2 others at CRIT
[16:37:27] … please contact him about it is all I can say, I guess
[16:37:29] kevincolyerwork: Something about project planning?
[16:37:29] Belinda van de Loo: sorry
[16:37:34] Steve Sullivan: doesn't seem to have anyting to do with knowlege, just communication
[16:37:59] kevincolyerwork: I have been in contact with him - he wanted some advise about something but he said it was more about project planning.
[16:38:31] … There is no reason why other wiki's can not exisit but I think duplication of what KB is about would be a problem
[16:38:47] Belinda van de Loo: my concern is also in that category
[16:38:55] … I'm just reviewing the link you sent
[16:39:04] … but this isn't what Rodney was proposing
[16:39:22] kevincolyerwork: There was a rumble of something at a base in switzerland that I heard at the WELC but I think it was vision speak or in house. Neither of those are a problem but the guy didn't know about Kb (and wasn't too interested when I spoke to him!)
[16:39:24] Belinda van de Loo: and it is relatively new (as per CRIT)
[16:39:39] kevincolyerwork: OK - lets look in to it.
[16:40:10] Steve Sullivan: YWAM Madison still has a kb but it is unloved, uncared for and attracts some bad stuff
[16:40:16] kevincolyerwork: It has been good when people get KB and realise they DONT have to duplicate work. Setting up a wiki like this is tough and we are 2 years ahead of anyone in YWAM in doing it (well).
[16:40:39] … OK any other feedback form WELC etc?
[16:40:46] Steve Sullivan: then we should perhaps ask others if it includes enough of what they too want in a kb?
[16:40:54] Belinda van de Loo: If we can encourage other YWAMers to feed into this one instead of re-inventing the wheel (as we are notorious for) it would be great
[16:41:02] Steve Sullivan: it still largely reflects some of our peculiar interests
[16:41:08] kevincolyerwork: It is designed to stop re-invertion!
[16:41:23] Steve Sullivan: what is re-invertion?
[16:41:33] Belinda van de Loo: re-inventing the wheel
[16:41:54] Steve Sullivan: (pi)h
[16:41:57] Belinda van de Loo: doing the same thing in subsequent generations without learning from the past
[16:42:17] kevincolyerwork: Steve - tell us about WELC!
[16:42:28] Belinda van de Loo: (happy)
[16:42:55] Steve Sullivan: much interest, it was spoken well of in the main meeting, many people looked at it and signed up, not so many have added much
[16:43:11] … Arnoud is the remarkable exception in adding
[16:43:27] Belinda van de Loo: I've gotten a fresh contact and invite via a few of my more recent contributions
[16:43:29] … I'm pleased!
[16:43:31] Steve Sullivan: it seems like a popular idea, but not enough are adding
[16:43:36] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Thanks!
[16:43:49] Steve Sullivan: welcome
[16:44:19] … wiki has approximately 7 bazillion articles but only about 2 -- 4000 main contributors
[16:44:27] Arnoud van Dillewijn: I have a question!
[16:44:37] Steve Sullivan: so the WELC did well to publicise it and lots of poeple looked at it, but haven't added stuff yet
[16:44:51] … do we need to target contributors more?
[16:44:53] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Does any of you know what happened to the www.ywameurope.org?
[16:44:56] Belinda van de Loo: it takes higher than average computer skills to add
[16:45:01] kevincolyerwork: it is ywam.eu now.
[16:45:06] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Okay!
[16:45:15] … That's why had troubles finding it!
[16:45:18] … Thanks!
[16:45:29] kevincolyerwork: @BvdL - that is true and we are trying to make it easier with WYSIWYG etc.
[16:45:59] … Any other feedback?
[16:46:04] Belinda van de Loo: it will take off when wysiwyg is improved
[16:46:27] kevincolyerwork: Could do - although I never use it!
[16:46:28] Belinda van de Loo: then everyone who wants to can add more easily - of course, that brings it's own problems with it
[16:46:35] the.matrix.is.everywhere: what you think needs to be improved specifically?
[16:46:46] Steve Sullivan: what problems bvdlo
[16:47:24] Belinda van de Loo: well, I guess I consider myself as a person with above average comp skills and I had some difficulty with learning to edit and what shortcuts, etc.
[16:47:38] kevincolyerwork: You are right. It is not easy
[16:47:49] … But HTML is harder.
[16:48:03] Steve Sullivan: could each of us come up with a list of the 'hard' bits and see if we could solve them?
[16:48:12] … +1 I'm voting for that idea
[16:48:31] … and we could ask some computer illiterates, like my mother
[16:48:40] the.matrix.is.everywhere: that's hard, i tend to tell people that it's real easy
[16:48:43] Belinda van de Loo: or most base leaders!@
[16:48:48] kevincolyerwork: +1 - can we make a list when we get to ITEM 5
[16:48:55] Belinda van de Loo: +1
[16:48:58] Steve Sullivan: ha ha ha, m,ost base leaders, now that's funny
[16:49:01] the.matrix.is.everywhere: but then i guess i am above average
[16:49:07] kevincolyerwork: Yep, I know a regional leader who couldn't find the site because it was a .com
[16:49:08] bobkeeler: maybe it would be good to get someone into the site who is not a computer expert and see what problems they run into
[16:49:11] Steve Sullivan: i am a 3
[16:49:19] Belinda van de Loo: :D
[16:49:28] … hey, kev
[16:49:32] … rodney just came online
[16:49:40] Steve Sullivan: hi rodney
[16:49:41] Belinda van de Loo: let's invite and ask him about CRIT
[16:49:51] * kevincolyerwork invited reblevins
[16:50:02] Belinda van de Loo: Hi ROd
[16:50:05] kevincolyerwork: Hi rodney
[16:50:11] Belinda van de Loo: I was telling the group about your new initiative from CRIT
[16:50:14] bobkeeler: HI Rodney
[16:50:16] Belinda van de Loo: could you tell us about it?
[16:50:32] the.matrix.is.everywhere: hi rod
[16:50:34] Belinda van de Loo: oops, guess I just took the chairman's position - sorry kev
[16:50:42] Steve Sullivan: I forgive you
[16:50:48] kevincolyerwork: Steve forgive you
[16:50:52] Steve Sullivan: dam, I'm not the chairman either, sorry
[16:51:03] Belinda van de Loo: you guys have me in stitches!
[16:51:09] kevincolyerwork: please forgive me for being such a slow chairman
[16:51:12] Steve Sullivan: like dorcas?
[16:51:21] Belinda van de Loo: (rofl)
[16:51:21] Rodney Blevins: well, I can write something quickly if you like
[16:51:23] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Hahaha!
[16:51:41] kevincolyerwork: BvdL - please be yourself. I have no need for ego stroking as chairman
[16:51:43] Arnoud van Dillewijn: What were we actually doing?
[16:51:47] kevincolyerwork: Although it is nice!
[16:51:55] Steve Sullivan: rod was giving a crit report
[16:51:58] kevincolyerwork: Rodney says he is too busy to chat BTW
[16:52:10] Rodney Blevins: no i can give a quick report
[16:52:15] kevincolyerwork: GO!
[16:52:17] Rodney Blevins: k
[16:52:17] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Good good!
[16:52:19] Steve Sullivan: i think the crit needs to be careful that it doesn't decide on a 'once cize fits all' strategy
[16:52:30] Rodney Blevins: ok
[16:52:34] Steve Sullivan: because we mustn't CRIT1CIZE
[16:52:39] Rodney Blevins: well...
[16:52:40] … ha ha
[16:52:44] kevincolyerwork: ha ha let rodney speak!
[16:52:51] Rodney Blevins: we mentioned ywamkb a couple of times
[16:52:56] kevincolyerwork: yay!
[16:52:59] Steve Sullivan: and
[16:53:14] Rodney Blevins: but the main thing was with Steve Keever's multipluying communicators
[16:53:21] kevincolyerwork: cool
[16:53:25] Rodney Blevins: he is seeting up a communicaitons db on ywamkb
[16:53:33] Steve Sullivan: wow
[16:53:35] Rodney Blevins: of comm people/ministries
[16:53:45] kevincolyerwork: I noticed his pages...
[16:53:45] Rodney Blevins: so we're directing everyone there to fill in their info
[16:53:51] Steve Sullivan: wow again
[16:53:56] Belinda van de Loo: oh no, another steve!
[16:54:02] Rodney Blevins: this would be a place to start
[16:54:06] … maybe not the ideal way to do it
[16:54:14] … a webform might be better for inputting
[16:54:24] … but then certianly include the info on ywamkb
[16:54:35] Belinda van de Loo: Rod, how about YOUR specific project...?
[16:54:37] Steve Sullivan: can we have a webform on the KB kev?
[16:54:48] Rodney Blevins: about my project
[16:55:00] … we want to set up a ywam stories wiki
[16:55:08] … (although wiki may not be the right word)
[16:55:10] Belinda van de Loo: that's the one
[16:55:21] Rodney Blevins: so that ywamers everywhere can publish their stories
[16:55:25] … photos, videos
[16:55:31] … must be multi-lingual
[16:55:39] Steve Sullivan: like the kb video site?
[16:55:40] Rodney Blevins: as many langs as possible
[16:55:43] Belinda van de Loo: that's where we need to grow in still
[16:55:56] Rodney Blevins: don't know about the video site
[16:56:04] Belinda van de Loo: keep telling the story there, rod
[16:56:09] Rodney Blevins: it will be a communicty-driven thing
[16:56:20] … with story voting/flagging
[16:56:24] the.matrix.is.everywhere: grow in multi languages or sites??
[16:56:25] Steve Sullivan: have a look at http://www.ywamkb.net/kb/index.php/Outreach_Videos it is an experimetn
[16:56:49] Rodney Blevins: so certain stories will move to the top
[16:56:50] kevincolyerwork: It sounds good. But probably not a wiki thing...
[16:56:58] Rodney Blevins: right not mediwiki
[16:56:59] kevincolyerwork: More like Slashdot...
[16:57:03] Rodney Blevins: we're going to use drupal
[16:57:04] Steve Sullivan: more like a blog?
[16:57:15] kevincolyerwork: Mediawiki is cumbersome to do that...
[16:57:18] Rodney Blevins: kind f like a mix between a blog and digg.com
[16:57:25] kevincolyerwork: Go for it. Sounds great.
[16:57:29] Rodney Blevins: ever seen newsvine.com?
[16:57:31] Steve Sullivan: http://drupal.org/
[16:57:47] kevincolyerwork: Kind of a newspaper but more user driven
[16:57:50] … I like it
[16:57:52] Rodney Blevins: right
[16:57:55] … we looked at ywamkb as a palce for this
[16:58:00] … but also came to the same conclusion
[16:58:07] … the user voting stuff would be tricky
[16:58:16] … and drupal is perfect for ths kind of thing
[16:58:21] the.matrix.is.everywhere: drupal is great for that, i guess, drupal is great in general (imho)
[16:58:23] kevincolyerwork: But please write about it on the KB anyway!
[16:58:29] Rodney Blevins: sure
[16:58:35] Steve Sullivan: i agree, free standing is good
[16:58:45] Belinda van de Loo: thanks rod... I get it even better now than I did at staff mtg
[16:58:51] Rodney Blevins: i wonder if the kb would be a place for our porject planning stuff, etc.?
[16:58:55] Steve Sullivan: don't go to staff meetings!
[16:59:03] kevincolyerwork: Yes! Thanks for shouting the KB corner at CRIT.
[16:59:11] Rodney Blevins: or should we use our own wiki for that?
[16:59:20] Belinda van de Loo: I have to, I'm leading worship at your base staff mtg tomorrow nite!
[16:59:31] kevincolyerwork: If you use ours then you drive people to this site.
[16:59:39] Rodney Blevins: right
[16:59:44] Belinda van de Loo: good cross pollination
[16:59:47] Rodney Blevins: sure
[16:59:48] Belinda van de Loo: good for both!
[16:59:49] Steve Sullivan: i pressed the GENESIS guys to use the kb
[16:59:54] Belinda van de Loo: and?
[16:59:58] Steve Sullivan: because then everyone who may need to know can find it
[17:00:12] Rodney Blevins: i just don't want to muddy the kb waters as it were
[17:00:15] Steve Sullivan: otherwise knowledge will be 'hidden
[17:00:17] kevincolyerwork: We can host you. You can create your own pages a bit like we did with WELC08 - actually you can export a suite of pages really easily like that.
[17:00:29] Rodney Blevins: ok
[17:00:47] kevincolyerwork: Or you could do it under your Username e.g. User:Rodney/Coolproject/planning
[17:00:50] Steve Sullivan:  we don't need all the stories and videos... but all the knowledge would be  good
[17:01:00] Belinda van de Loo: knowledge is good
[17:01:04] Rodney Blevins: can it be multi-lingual? we would need spanish and english
[17:01:05] Belinda van de Loo: stories are better
[17:01:08] Steve Sullivan: thank you, I love you bel
[17:01:10] kevincolyerwork: User:Rodney/Coolproject/meetingnotes
[17:01:22] Rodney Blevins: ok
[17:01:32] kevincolyerwork: sure write in spanish!
[17:01:32] Belinda van de Loo: just call me auntielindy!
[17:01:39] … ha ha
[17:01:43] Rodney Blevins: ha! easy for you to say
[17:01:48] … kev, you and i can chat more about that later
[17:01:54] Belinda van de Loo: we moeten het ook in het nederlands beschikbaar hebben
[17:01:55] Steve Sullivan: can I tell you a story about compliance to charity commissioners rules?
[17:01:56] kevincolyerwork: Rodney: waht was the feel for KB at CRIT?
[17:02:01] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Goed zo!
[17:02:08] Rodney Blevins: well...
[17:02:09] Steve Sullivan: hey es de al magtehi
[17:02:09] kevincolyerwork: Knuffle puss
[17:02:18] Rodney Blevins: hard to say
[17:02:22] Belinda van de Loo: I think you're typing in tongues
[17:02:24] Steve Sullivan: hard to listen to
[17:02:31] Rodney Blevins: i think people were happy about it
[17:02:37] … but maybe a little overhwelmed
[17:02:43] Steve Sullivan: happy about what?
[17:02:46] Belinda van de Loo: overwhelmed?
[17:02:52] … that's surprising to hear
[17:03:01] … with the kb or all the info coming at them?
[17:03:03] … or both?
[17:03:06] Rodney Blevins: well, with the kb
[17:03:16] Belinda van de Loo: |-(
[17:03:24] Steve Sullivan: is overwhelmed good?
[17:03:26] Belinda van de Loo: :^)
[17:03:27] Rodney Blevins: i think people are still getting used to the idea of adding stuff to someone else's website
[17:03:32] kevincolyerwork: I dont think that is suprising...
[17:03:34] Steve Sullivan: it is their website
[17:03:47] Rodney Blevins: sure once they make it theirs
[17:03:52] … they're afraid of doing something wrong
[17:03:56] … or stupid
[17:03:57] Belinda van de Loo: well we are in the age of blogs and comments on just about everything, aren't we?
[17:03:59] … maybe not
[17:04:00] Steve Sullivan: i add stuff to wikipedia because I want people to know what I know -- a kind of megalomania
[17:04:06] kevincolyerwork: I think that the CRIT is more about communicators and not educators... KB is not a design thing it is a resorce/training thing
[17:04:12] Belinda van de Loo: true confessions
[17:04:20] Steve Sullivan: good point Rodney how can we make it theirs?
[17:04:39] Rodney Blevins: well...donkt know off hand
[17:04:41] Belinda van de Loo: yes, communicators are the perfectionists of knowledge
[17:04:51] … break it into bite-sized pieces
[17:05:02] … then they'll add and get hooked
[17:05:03] the.matrix.is.everywhere: @Belinda: depends on the age, some are into that blogging stuff, others just look up their faviorite news website
[17:05:12] Belinda van de Loo: I'm 53!
[17:05:17] … (now you know, Steve!)
[17:05:19] kevincolyerwork: I strongly feel that we need to get more leadership on board, drain their braiins and laptops. The CRIT folks  are keen to communicate but it is the influencers we need on the KB!
[17:05:31] Rodney Blevins: true
[17:05:45] kevincolyerwork: Of course we become influencers as we contribute...
[17:05:52] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i can try to hack some computers here??
[17:05:56] kevincolyerwork: That is why we need CRITters on board
[17:06:03] Belinda van de Loo: yes, most of us are on networks on base
[17:06:05] kevincolyerwork: for what they can become
[17:06:16] Belinda van de Loo: and the base leaders don't know how to implement security]
[17:06:21] Steve Sullivan: can we go to the next agenda point then
[17:06:25] Belinda van de Loo: we could have fun getting all their teaching notes!
[17:06:28] kevincolyerwork: Yep: thanks Rodney
[17:06:37] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB meeting -Problem's changing passwords - user User:Edvdveer noted this problem with logging in. Has anyone else discovered problems logging in and registering?"
[17:06:38] Steve Sullivan: yes, teaching notes
[17:06:40] Belinda van de Loo: sorry, getting carried away here - it's my creative imagination
[17:06:51] Steve Sullivan: you young things bel
[17:07:05] … i've had no problems logging in
[17:07:08] kevincolyerwork: So this bug came to light recently - any of us experienced it?
[17:07:14] Rodney Blevins: bye
[17:07:15] Belinda van de Loo: nope
[17:07:17] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Neither did I
[17:07:18] kevincolyerwork: bye
[17:07:22] Belinda van de Loo: bye rod... hi to hbeek
[17:07:22] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Tchau
[17:07:24] the.matrix.is.everywhere: we are all young, we are Ywam....
[17:07:26] Steve Sullivan: bye rodney
[17:07:34] Belinda van de Loo: CIAO
[17:07:43] … tchuss
[17:07:48] Steve Sullivan: Chewbakka
[17:07:48] * Rodney Blevins left the chat.
[17:07:48] Belinda van de Loo: doei
[17:07:49] kevincolyerwork: OK, well keep an ear open for it. I think it is about cookies but it is hard to track down.
[17:08:04] Belinda van de Loo: leave starwars out of this!
[17:08:05] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i didn't realize any bug,
[17:08:15] kevincolyerwork: I think if we know nothing I will keep an eye on it and move on to ITEM 5
[17:08:17] Steve Sullivan: are you older enough to remember star wars bel
[17:08:26] Belinda van de Loo: is he sure it wasn't from a firewall...
[17:08:27] Steve Sullivan: promotion then
[17:08:31] Belinda van de Loo: what's his OS?
[17:08:38] … Vista would be a likely culprit
[17:08:59] bobkeeler: I forgot my login name and there is no way to recover it....that i know, I did remember it finally... how about sign in by email?
[17:09:10] Belinda van de Loo: lotsa work
[17:09:10] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB meeting -ITEM 5 and 6 5 and 6 to Promotion and Suggestions for improvements."
[17:09:13] kevincolyerwork: Actually I'm combining 5 and 6 to Promotion and Suggestions for improvements.
[17:09:21] bobkeeler: the email password button doesn't work without the login name, correct?
[17:09:38] kevincolyerwork: @bob - sorry, i'll backtrack
[17:09:48] … Yes you need to know your login!
[17:09:52] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Bob got a good point
[17:10:01] Steve Sullivan: How can we get more contributors?
[17:10:08] kevincolyerwork: Email me or Steve or Helpdesk people and we will track you down.
[17:10:14] Belinda van de Loo: how about a webinar?
[17:10:19] Steve Sullivan: winebar?
[17:10:21] kevincolyerwork: I'll put it on the FAQ...
[17:10:26] Belinda van de Loo: (d)
[17:10:38] Steve Sullivan: yes, that's it, we should meet in Brussels
[17:10:41] Belinda van de Loo: nope, a web-in-nar
[17:10:46] Steve Sullivan: oh, sorry
[17:10:47] Belinda van de Loo: online
[17:10:59] … (but I'll take you up on the offer!)
[17:11:23] … anybody thot of good ol' fashioned ywam base announce?
[17:11:30] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i prefer red wine, but i'm far away, so there must be other options
[17:11:59] kevincolyerwork: We could do a webinar and do base announce to get it out there.
[17:12:05] Steve Sullivan: "I'm far away"? did the matrix say that?
[17:12:19] kevincolyerwork: Never done a webinar - how does that work?
[17:12:20] the.matrix.is.everywhere: yes
[17:12:31] … what's a wbinar??
[17:12:34] bobkeeler: has YWAM KB made the feature article on ywamconnect? can that be requested?
[17:12:48] Belinda van de Loo: I've never "done" a webinar either... but I know they're out there
[17:12:51] … do-able
[17:13:07] kevincolyerwork: Please request it! And we should be front page on Intl YWAMer too!
[17:13:12] Steve Sullivan: there will be a comment in the next  Western Europe missive from STephe Mayers (W E Leader)
[17:13:16] bobkeeler: yeah
[17:13:18] Belinda van de Loo: there are webinars available via Worship Leader magazine, that's how I know
[17:13:41] … Western Europe "Missive"  - what's tHAT?
[17:13:52] the.matrix.is.everywhere: still dunno what a webinar is....
[17:14:07] Belinda van de Loo: I think more people - the kind of people we want to reach - would be reading the ywam base announce, and such
[17:14:07] Steve Sullivan: email from W E Director to all ywamers in the region
[17:14:14] kevincolyerwork: A seminar on the Web
[17:14:21] bobkeeler: how about a mini cd or dvd advertisement to all the bases..... could be done through the CRITers
[17:14:45] kevincolyerwork: Is there easy access to the CRIT mailing list?
[17:15:03] Steve Sullivan: could Lynn Green command everyone to add everything to the kb?
[17:15:11] Belinda van de Loo: well, I don't get those missives, I think... and if I don't, who does, really?
[17:15:12] Steve Sullivan: speaking of mailing lists and healing the nervous system
[17:15:18] kevincolyerwork: ouch
[17:15:20] Steve Sullivan: i felt a bit nervous saying that
[17:15:20] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Well, he is your neighbour right?
[17:15:25] Steve Sullivan: yes, my neighbour
[17:15:43] kevincolyerwork: Love your neighbour and tell them about the KB!
[17:15:55] Steve Sullivan: OK, I'll speak to Lynn
[17:16:03] kevincolyerwork: I talked to Lynn about it and he is positive. But nothing from him yet article-wise.
[17:16:04] Steve Sullivan: +1  I'm voting that I speak to lynn
[17:16:07] kevincolyerwork: +1
[17:16:24] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Very good! +1
[17:16:25] the.matrix.is.everywhere: +2
[17:16:29] Belinda van de Loo: -1
[17:16:36] bobkeeler: +1 anonymously
[17:16:48] Steve Sullivan: ha ha ah
[17:16:49] Belinda van de Loo: I predict... it won't go far
[17:16:55] Steve Sullivan: what won't go far?
[17:16:57] Belinda van de Loo: don't start at the top...
[17:17:04] … start at the broadest level
[17:17:09] Steve Sullivan: i think bel is right
[17:17:11] kevincolyerwork: Actually we do need to keep pestering all leaders everywhere...
[17:17:12] Belinda van de Loo: an advert from Lynn
[17:17:14] … hmmm
[17:17:20] … there are other ways
[17:17:25] Steve Sullivan: could be a death knell
[17:17:31] Belinda van de Loo: and conference hopping would be the best
[17:17:37] … in-your-face approach
[17:17:38] … show and tell
[17:17:56] Steve Sullivan: an links from all our websites
[17:18:02] kevincolyerwork: I keep talking to Stephe Mayers but no input. I am close to getting Jeff there but he already is 100% occupied.
[17:18:03] Belinda van de Loo: good idea
[17:18:11] Steve Sullivan: what happened to the planet ywam links on the main page kev
[17:18:20] … we could then ask for reciprocity
[17:18:20] Belinda van de Loo: rod has access to jeff's stuff
[17:18:24] kevincolyerwork: ha ha
[17:18:31] Belinda van de Loo: just ask jeff to give rodney permission to upload
[17:18:46] Steve Sullivan: too many people would die
[17:18:53] Belinda van de Loo: who has access to Stephe's stuff?  His PA
[17:18:57] kevincolyerwork: But we should hastle all senior leaders to contribute.
[17:19:01] Belinda van de Loo: same with Lynn... get those guys/girls
[17:19:07] Steve Sullivan: Stephe has no stuff, it was stolen in Israel
[17:19:10] Belinda van de Loo: they are un=hassleable
[17:19:14] kevincolyerwork: Others will follow by example.
[17:19:21] Belinda van de Loo: I've got steve stuff, everyone does
[17:19:24] kevincolyerwork: But we are doing well from the grass roots
[17:19:27] Belinda van de Loo: from the steve and barry show
[17:19:32] … (LTS, BLS)
[17:19:33] Steve Sullivan: oh, put it on then
[17:19:40] … ask them first
[17:19:47] kevincolyerwork: and remember the grass roots of today are the leaders tomorrow - we are 5 years ahead of our time!
[17:19:56] Steve Sullivan: I've asked two people this week, explained the GNU and they were happy
[17:20:03] Belinda van de Loo: the clock is ticking on that one  (o)
[17:20:16] Steve Sullivan: "honouring the truth-teller" and "gifts of the HOly SPirti"
[17:20:21] … they were very happy
[17:20:23] Belinda van de Loo: we may be down to 4,5 years ahead now
[17:20:26] kevincolyerwork: Ideas for imporvements?
[17:20:27] Arnoud van Dillewijn: How is the world doing on getting on the KB?
[17:20:43] kevincolyerwork: sorry  - back to Arnoud?
[17:20:45] Belinda van de Loo: ask those 5000 contributers
[17:20:55] … why do you wiki?
[17:20:56] Arnoud van Dillewijn: You have no note where they are from?
[17:20:58] kevincolyerwork: ?
[17:21:06] Steve Sullivan: I think the help videos still need to be redone Kev
[17:21:37] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Like who is mainly using the KB, Europe, USA, Australia?
[17:21:41] kevincolyerwork: (write me some scripts - I've been so busy that it is not easy...)
[17:21:55] Belinda van de Loo: @arnoud - je zou een poll kunnen doen op wiki?
[17:21:56] Arnoud van Dillewijn: What about Africa, S-America, Asia?
[17:21:58] kevincolyerwork: I can check for you... hango on
[17:22:20] Belinda van de Loo: hanging.....
[17:22:32] … wasn't it Spain?
[17:22:42] Arnoud van Dillewijn: If we want to do promotion, where is it mostly needed? Who aren't our users yet?
[17:22:49] the.matrix.is.everywhere: are the help videos on youtube like sites as well? would it help if they are on there??
[17:22:54] Belinda van de Loo: please raise your hands!
[17:22:55] kevincolyerwork: Spain was odd as this month it is way down...
[17:23:01] Steve Sullivan: is there a poll that people can do on the wiki?
[17:23:07] kevincolyerwork: Neo: yes
[17:23:14] Belinda van de Loo: do you secretly speak dutch?
[17:23:24] Steve Sullivan: no, I speak babelfish
[17:23:27] Belinda van de Loo: I just wrote that question in Dutch to Arnoud!
[17:23:33] the.matrix.is.everywhere: k
[17:23:34] Belinda van de Loo: too funny!
[17:23:38] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Jep, natuurlijk
[17:23:40] Belinda van de Loo: and quick!
[17:23:49] Steve Sullivan: it is 2008 and technology reigns in JEsus name
[17:23:57] bobkeeler: I suggest getting away from youtube and using godtube, for men there is too many temptations on youtube
[17:24:07] Belinda van de Loo: Jesus reigns in technology's name!
[17:24:14] kevincolyerwork: 1  20331  37.96%  15536  39.59%  320005  46.28%  0  0.00%  0  0.00%  United States
  2  9216  17.21%  5876  14.97%  74453  10.77%  0  0.00%  0  0.00%  Great Britain (UK)
  3  6572  12.27%  3631  9.25%  30284  4.38%  0  0.00%  0  0.00%  Netherlands
  4  2957  5.52%  2572  6.55%  29920  4.33%  0  0.00%  0  0.00%  Germany
  5  1749  3.27%  1113  2.84%  9400  1.36%  0  0.00%  0  0.00%  Argentina
  6  1671  3.12%  1619  4.13%  40593  5.87%  0  0.00%  0  0.00%  France
  7  1227  2.29%  1033  2.63%  13665  1.98%  0  0.00%  0  0.00%  Belgium
  8  1219  2.28%  961  2.45%  10109  1.46%  0  0.00%  0  0.00%  Sweden
  9  974  1.82%  608  1.55%  45783  6.62%  0  0.00%  0  0.00%  Australia
  10  915  1.71%  654  1.67%  5454  0.79%  0  0.00%  0  0.00%  Norway
[17:24:22] the.matrix.is.everywhere: only for men??
[17:24:29] kevincolyerwork: April's hits by country
[17:24:33] Belinda van de Loo: i didn't know THAT?!
[17:24:36] bobkeeler: I am a man and thats all I know
[17:24:39] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Norway that must be me!
[17:24:48] Steve Sullivan: are there handbag videos on youtube?
[17:24:50] Belinda van de Loo: is that where you are?
[17:24:56] kevincolyerwork: Lets hope it is more than just you!
[17:25:28] the.matrix.is.everywhere: aussie must be me, checking every day.... need to do more refresh i guess ;)
[17:25:30] Belinda van de Loo: I access Ice Age clips for my teaching
[17:25:33] Steve Sullivan: I am going to have to leave in a minute kev, I don't want to but I will. Can you send me a summary of the minutes with action points?
[17:25:34] Belinda van de Loo: are they on GodTube?
[17:25:51] Steve Sullivan: God loves handbags
[17:25:59] kevincolyerwork: Minutes will be on the Agenda page...
[17:26:07] … Next meeting date is there too.
[17:26:09] Belinda van de Loo: handbags????
[17:26:10] … ok
[17:26:15] Steve Sullivan: thanks Kevin, will there be a list of the action points?
[17:26:26] … AND
[17:26:29] Belinda van de Loo: how do you change your name like that?
[17:26:37] … yessir!
[17:26:41] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i just think that there are a great many people on youtube and googlevideo as well, so why stay away from it, ppl use it anyways whether we put it on there or not.
[17:26:55] the.matrix.is.everywhere: but put it on godtube as well is good
[17:27:23] Steve Sullivan: and then put the link on the video page
[17:27:25] Belinda van de Loo: I have to leave - sorry
[17:27:27] kevincolyerwork: I put it on Google video as it was relevant to ALL Mediawiki users.
[17:27:30] Belinda van de Loo: but thanks everyone
[17:27:32] kevincolyerwork: Bye!
[17:27:34] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Thanks for the numbers and percentages, I will study it..
[17:27:34] bobkeeler: bye
[17:27:36] Steve Sullivan: much love to all of you
[17:27:38] … bye
[17:27:41] the.matrix.is.everywhere: bye
[17:27:46] bobkeeler: bye
[17:27:47] kevincolyerwork: Actually it is time to leave to me too. Thanks everyone!!!!
[17:27:48] Arnoud van Dillewijn: Doei doei
[17:27:49] kevincolyerwork: BYE!
[17:28:01] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB meeting - MEETING OVER!"