YWAMKnowledgeBase:Meeting 20080204

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Statistics Report: statistics @ 25/1/2008 net gain of 26 pages 8 users, 5,803 page hits and 172 edits in just 21 days. Numbers are picking up again!

The meeting is held here: <skype action="chat" style="">kevincolyerwork</skype> at 15h00 GMT on 04 Feb, 2007.


You can put ideas here for what we want to talk about during the KB meeting. Anyone who wants to join in is welcome (put ~~~~: before your comment and you have the lead on that discussion!): (some or all of these)

  1. Follow up from last meeting
  2. As always: promotion! (Note we will be hard at work during WELC in March/April)
  3. Organising wiki - and suggestions and improvements
  4. General look and feel feedback - are there any big hurdles for people getting involved?
  5. General work to do: janitoral task (pages to categorise, articles to tidy etc., category pages to sort out. Articles that need renaming etc., articles that need removing from categories)
  6. Suggestion: What about a YWAMKnowledgeBase Sprint meeting: A time to meet in person, thrash out some new directions, have lots of fellowship (beer optional), host skype/genesis meetings for those not able to come, and have time to WORK on creating articles and shaping the KB.... A week in Autumn? Location? (Somewhere with good internet and Genesis?)
  7. Proposed next Meeting: YWAMKnowledgeBase:Meeting 20080303|Monday 3rd March @ 15h00 GMT


Please write your apologies here and any comments you wish to make but will not be able to. (Please sign by entering a --~~~~)

Who has an apology? I'm here, it's too hot to sleep, but where is everyone else? -- Neo 16:06, 4 February 2008 (CET)


Please put your name here if you are planning on coming to the meeting.


Present: Kevin and Neo


[16:18:18] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAMKB meeting"
[16:18:41] the.matrix.is.everywhere: well, teach them about the kb
[16:19:24] kevincolyerwork: I think as it is the two of us that you tell me what you want to talk about!
[16:20:07] the.matrix.is.everywhere: well, i don't know really
[16:20:16] … is there anything important going on?
[16:20:38] kevincolyerwork: errm no
[16:20:43] the.matrix.is.everywhere: hmm lets see
[16:20:52] kevincolyerwork: just general improvements - evoluntionary not revoluntiuonary
[16:21:00] the.matrix.is.everywhere: nothing important, ok
[16:21:03] kevincolyerwork: I woul dlike to know how it is used/view down under
[16:21:10] the.matrix.is.everywhere: well, i put up 2 new articles
[16:21:22] … that is sort of important to meet the goal
[16:21:31] … the question is
[16:21:39] … how can we motivate others to write stuff?
[16:21:47] kevincolyerwork: That is a very good question
[16:22:18] the.matrix.is.everywhere: good for me i asked the question and can wait no for "someone" to answer, right?
[16:22:30] … ;)
[16:22:41] kevincolyerwork: these meetings work better with more people!
[16:23:09] … It would be good to start by asking how to motivate people by you...
[16:24:04] the.matrix.is.everywhere: haha, i'm only a crazy dude i dunno know if that motivates people
[16:24:45] … but, well, how are we doing with advertising?
[16:25:04] kevincolyerwork: Have you found the business cards useful?
[16:25:42] the.matrix.is.everywhere: is that in a way that people feel it's something they can get stuff out or do they think they can contribute to the kb when they hear about it
[16:26:11] … the business cards, well, hmmm, honestly i haven't used them (blush)
[16:26:26] kevincolyerwork: That is ok. I found it useful for me.
[16:26:44] the.matrix.is.everywhere: personally i think they don't look inviting enough, but i work in a multimedia ministry
[16:26:57] kevincolyerwork: I think
[16:26:58] the.matrix.is.everywhere: everyone is very picky about design
[16:27:12] … i guess i get too picky too
[16:27:12] kevincolyerwork: errrrm you could re-design then for us!
[16:27:33] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ya, i would but i'm not much of a desinger
[16:28:15] … so, I'm happy the cards are available I just had not the opportunity to use them here so far
[16:28:16] kevincolyerwork: It is always challenging trying to motivate people and often incorporating them in the improvement of somthing is a good thing
[16:28:41] … How many people around you have heard of the KB?
[16:29:27] … And how confident are you in "selling" it to them?
[16:29:54] the.matrix.is.everywhere: well, some people know, but there was a decission at our base by some key communication people that they don't want everyone to get on there and potentially miss-represent the Base
[16:30:10] … that is a bit my dilema
[16:30:12] kevincolyerwork: How would people do that?
[16:31:10] the.matrix.is.everywhere: good question? i guess now I'm the one who has to find an answer
[16:32:09] kevincolyerwork: I would hope that people would share abstracted knowledge in their own names rather than as the base...
[16:32:56] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i might need to chat with some more people to write some information up that, if really necessary, could reviewed by a communication person first
[16:33:41] … while i agree with you there is still the issue that i don't want to bypass a decission that has benn made
[16:34:19] kevincolyerwork: I don't want to get involved in base politics but it seems like a bizare decision, especially by communication people! Do you think they mis=understand the KB?
[16:35:00] the.matrix.is.everywhere: but actually whiel chatting here i get some ideas who and how i could ask some people without violating the decission
[16:35:28] … i can't tell if someone miss-understood the kb
[16:36:06] … specially since one of the key persons is not here at the moment (outreach) but I would like to get some people to share from their knowledge
[16:36:11] kevincolyerwork: If you like you could ask the decision maker if they would like to chat with me to make sure they are not missing anything - I mean how could contributing to an article say on "team leadership" compromise the base?
[16:37:07] … You might like to ask the question (I do this) "How are you going to pass on the maximum of your knowledge to others" afterall most people have to leave YWAM at some stage...
[16:37:20] the.matrix.is.everywhere: well, i guess that the whole concept of a wiki, specially the contributing part, is pretty new to many folks
[16:37:38] kevincolyerwork: I have noticed that people get scared about it.
[16:38:08] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ya, right, but what to do about it?
[16:38:21] kevincolyerwork: They are worried a) that wierd poeple will get involved from outside and ruin it b) secutity issues c) people might take our knowledge and use it for their own purposes
[16:38:27] … b )
[16:38:38] … I answer
[16:38:51] … Its in the FAQ section
[16:39:07] … a) They can't and if they did I would block them
[16:39:40] … b ) there are security issues but it is fairly straightforward to avoid
[16:40:31] … c) we should contribute knowledge to the general public if they find is useful and I have liscend stuff under the GFDL to protect it...
[16:41:25] … Would it help to swing things if I promoted you to a super user?
[16:42:00] the.matrix.is.everywhere: well, i don't know what i could make different as a SU
[16:42:15] kevincolyerwork: You leaders there might trust the KB more...
[16:43:23] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i don't know if that helps, but might be if there is a administrator they have "direct access" to
[16:44:09] … what i would really like to see is that some people write information about the schools they are leading / staffing
[16:44:28] … i guess that would be a good starting point for quite some
[16:44:46] kevincolyerwork: exactly - especially if they are generic schools
[16:45:23] the.matrix.is.everywhere: right, the same with ministries
[16:45:39] … we have "megacities" for example
[16:46:07] … the kb would be a good place to make the ministry know to more people
[16:46:23] kevincolyerwork: I think the whole question is how much and how serious are people to multiply their effectiveness?
[16:46:25] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i guess i need to become a better sales man
[16:47:21] kevincolyerwork: The trick is to see how we can help people the most with the KB - what is their deepest need that we can help with KB rather than pulling them to us to help us.
[16:47:32] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ya, but multiplying is really just one aspect to it, i guess
[16:48:35] kevincolyerwork: i guess it is one of the primary reasons i started it
[16:49:14] the.matrix.is.everywhere: you think it's possible to have a small flyer (printable) that explains a bit about the KB and also shows how it fits into the mission as a whole
[16:49:32] … like how does the KB fit into the YWAM values
[16:49:46] … etc
[16:49:58] kevincolyerwork: perhaps with some story on it...
[16:50:50] the.matrix.is.everywhere: a testimony about how the KB was helpful for someone is always a good idea (Y)
[16:51:05] kevincolyerwork: have you a story like that?
[16:51:32] the.matrix.is.everywhere: plus, it can halp ppl to promote it who are not the best sales persons, just like me
[16:52:04] … well, i don't have  a story, i haven't done too much on the KB but it was more on the giving end
[16:52:28] kevincolyerwork: Could work. Have you seen anything like it on the promotion bit on the community pages?
[16:53:12] the.matrix.is.everywhere: not that I'm aware of right now
[16:54:00] … i mean there is a press release etc
[16:54:28] … but I'm not aware of a testimony or a printable promotion
[16:54:38] kevincolyerwork: (OK homework over now)
[16:55:11] the.matrix.is.everywhere: phew
[16:55:29] kevincolyerwork: Hmmm I think it is a good idea. If it works it might be nice to have it as a video or something. We had talked about this but I guess there is lots of things to do and we forgot!
[16:56:12] … This is currently nobody's fulltime project - I am a base leader by day!
[16:56:39] … I would actually like an IY article on it but I don't know if they consider it important enough.
[16:57:00] the.matrix.is.everywhere: video might be a good idea as well, but i guess a printable small flyer that also could be sent as email attachment should not be underestimated
[16:57:25] kevincolyerwork: Actually - I would want to start with a flyer and go to video afterwards using the flyer as a script.
[16:58:18] … Anyway - to put you on the spot - why do you think the KB is important? You are somewhat at odds with your base leadership in this why?
[16:58:18] the.matrix.is.everywhere:  I'm aware of the fact that no one is working full time on the kb, this is one part that makes it a bit tricky in aspects of time
[16:58:25] kevincolyerwork: ha ha
[16:59:15] … This is where we are a movement and not always organisational...
[16:59:39] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i don't like spot lights, I usually run the sound desk in the background ;)
[16:59:41] kevincolyerwork: actually the idea of this was mooted years ago by somefolks - nobody took the time to make it a reality - just me and Steve S
[17:00:14] … Perhaps that is why the KB appeals- it is a crystalisation of service for others
[17:00:40] … i serve you by offering the best of what I have learnt in why
[17:00:47] … ywam not why
[17:01:17] the.matrix.is.everywhere: good on ya, i once actually thought that it would be nice to have and now that it's there I'm most willing to help
[17:01:44] kevincolyerwork: perrhaps you are smarter than most?
[17:02:43] the.matrix.is.everywhere: am I? maybe, maybe not, I would like to help with so many things, i need 36h a day to work, but that is a challenge for many of us i guess
[17:03:29] … so, i think the KB fits perfectly into the aspect of broad-structured and de-centralized
[17:03:31] kevincolyerwork: They say that you should do the things you love and that you are good at
[17:03:45] … We have meetings - so that is teams!
[17:03:57] the.matrix.is.everywhere: from a YWAM value point of view
[17:04:28] kevincolyerwork: The technical side is so minimal - running Linux/Apache/Mysql and PHP is trivial - very little maintanence
[17:04:41] … It is all in the project and the content
[17:05:33] the.matrix.is.everywhere: well, you had to make the effort to figure out how it works from the adminstrational end, that might be something that people are scared of
[17:05:59] … i terms of starting a project like this
[17:07:04] kevincolyerwork: I don't have a long queue of people asking me for help! Actually there are two other Mediawiki's operating in YWAM that I know of and they didn't need me help.
[17:08:09] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ya, that's what i mean, it is something new, unknown, therefore requieres more work
[17:08:19] kevincolyerwork: But the hardest aspects I find are 1) persuading leaders and those with lots of knowledge to write it downa nd pass it on - they are either two busy, find the learning curve to hard or can't be bothered. (No-one has sent me a doc to convert)
[17:08:32] the.matrix.is.everywhere: there are many people who could help with setting up a website or blog
[17:08:51] kevincolyerwork: 2) persuadiung ywamers to give up the protectionism of their knowledge
[17:09:20] … it would suprise you how many people have little cheifdoms and don't want to help others in case they dilute or run off with their pet project
[17:10:13] the.matrix.is.everywhere: well, ya, this point 2 comes from a business thinking, i believe
[17:10:31] … if i know something that no one else knows i can't be fired
[17:10:46] … it's all over in the business world
[17:11:04] … but this lie needs to be broken
[17:11:34] … at the end, it's exculsivness
[17:11:37] kevincolyerwork: If I know something you don't I will get invited to speak on schools an dyou wont (i get honorariums and a chance to recruit?)
[17:12:18] … IF I know something my schools will be full and I will be busy?
[17:12:38] … Sorry
[17:12:45] … A cynical moment there!
[17:12:51] … But it could be true!
[17:13:31] the.matrix.is.everywhere: i guess we agree that sharing our knowledge is a good and valuable thing
[17:13:38] kevincolyerwork: We do
[17:14:03] the.matrix.is.everywhere: what it comes down to, i guess, is how can we motivate others that something like a wiki a good place to do that
[17:14:09] kevincolyerwork: But persuading others is the trick. I want them to see that they stand much to gain and will be further along in their own goals by sharing with others...
[17:15:00] … It is persuasion. It will get easier with the newer YWAMers and eventually the older ones will switch when there is a critical mass. We are getting close to 1% of all YWAMers involved as members now.
[17:16:14] … I think the strategy is to present a really helpful, dynamic tool with a vital comunity around it that gives out life - people are drawn to that. When there is a critical mass it will all go well
[17:17:12] … Anyhow... I guess you must need to sleep. I will leave you. I need to cook dinner. I have started a page here: http://www.ywamkb.net/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community_Portal#Promotion that we could work on the history and values essay. Tobe honest anything on that page needs work. Why not try to improve my business cards?
[17:17:31] … During this meeting my Budgerigar pooped on my computer...
[17:18:05] the.matrix.is.everywhere: you shoud hide your computer better....
[17:18:20] kevincolyerwork: I should not let the budgie out!
[17:18:37] … He is perched on my right hand as I type this. He seems to like the movement!
[17:18:46] … Take care!
[17:18:47] the.matrix.is.everywhere: well, as i said, i'm not much of a designer, but if i have an idea that i am able to actually design i will go for it
[17:19:05] … haha
[17:19:18] … maybe i also have an idea for a flyer
[17:19:21] kevincolyerwork: Why not persuade a designer freind to help you - that way they get involved?
[17:19:36] the.matrix.is.everywhere: I'll see
[17:19:37] kevincolyerwork: Involving others is often better than doing it yourself
[17:19:47] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ya, good idea (Y)
[17:19:51] kevincolyerwork: plus they are often better than us!
[17:19:57] … bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
[17:20:06] the.matrix.is.everywhere: ok, was nice chatting with you
[17:20:17] kevincolyerwork: and you!
[17:20:22] the.matrix.is.everywhere: blessings from the other end of the earth
[17:20:30] … bye (hi)