Statistics Report: statistics @ 30/11/2007 net gain of 24 pages, 11 users, 10,086 page hits and 381 edits.
The meeting is held here: <skype action="chat" style="">kevincolyerwork</skype> at 15h00 GMT on Dec. 03, 2007.
You can put ideas here for what we want to talk about during the KB meeting. Anyone who wants to join in is welcome:
- Your ideas here!!! (put ~~~~: before your comment and you have the lead on that discussion!)
- Douglass: This idea applies to both this meeting, and the discussion about wiki note taking. While wikis are great for taking notes, they are not so great for taking interactive notes. I sugjest we use Gobby for this purpose, and place the content on the wiki at the end of the meeting. -- Douglass
- Douglass, can you set this up for the meeting please? --Kev-The-Hasty 13:03, 30 November 2007 (CET)
- Kev-The-Hasty 13:03, 30 November 2007 (CET): Can we review how well the wysiwyg editor is doing? I have some problems - it creates quite poor code and I have been cleaning up a lot of stuff. Proposal: Off by default (Currently On by default)
- Douglass: How to attract people to the KB (KPC: to contribute)
- Douglass: Organizing teams
- Douglass: Profile + skill listing section for people Resource People
- Douglass: How shall we organize a style guide?
- Kevin: Portals and front page
Lots on the agenda. I will be quite strict and limit harmless banter!!! Please come prepared! --Kev-The-Hasty 13:03, 30 November 2007 (CET)
Please write your apologies here and any comments you wish to make but will not be able to. (Please sign by entering a --~~~~)
Please put your name here if you are planning on coming to the meeting. Crashsystems
Present: Kevin Colyer, Douglass, Steve Sullivan, Chris, Sarah Cumming
Minutes coming soon!
Next Meeting: YWAMKnowledgeBase:Meeting 20080107|Monday 7th January @ 15h00 GMT
[16:09:49] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB Meeting" [16:09:52] kevincolyerwork: WELCOME ALL. lET'S INTRODUCE OURSELVES [16:10:23] ... I'm Kevin and I am feeling calm and relaxed and glad there are 4 people in this meeting [16:10:33] ... Im in brussels and it is raining! [16:10:36] Douglass: Ok. I'm Douglass, and I work for the IT department at YWAM Nashville. http://crashsystems.wikispaces.com [16:11:31] chris: i'm chris, i'm with ywam latvia, but right now i'm in the US... i'm generally facilitating communication for ywam latvia.... i'm in Ohio now... it's cold & windy :) [16:11:41] Douglass: Is steve still on, or is he just invisible? [16:11:48] Steve Sullivan, admirer of knowledgebases everywhere (aokbe): i'm steve and chunky [16:11:52] ... not invisible at all [16:11:58] kevincolyerwork: He was suprisingly quiet for a moment [16:11:58] Douglass: ahh, ok [16:12:05] chris: ;) [16:12:06] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: good to meet you chris and douglass [16:12:08] kevincolyerwork: OK EVERYONE. [16:12:17] ... THE AGENDA IS HERE: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Meeting_20071203 [16:12:18] chris: you too [16:12:19] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i live in harpenden, england and work with training and kevin [16:12:55] kevincolyerwork: IS THERE ANYTHING FOLKS WOULD WANT TO CHAT ABOUT BUT IS NOT ON THE AGENDA? [16:13:10] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: need to read that page sorry [16:13:17] kevincolyerwork: I wont shout in capitals all the time just when I want order! [16:13:18] Douglass: I'll let you know if I think of anything. [16:13:21] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: did you say 'portals' [16:13:30] ... and the front page that you and i talked about [16:13:46] ... i've got gobby up now [16:13:55] kevincolyerwork: too late [16:14:02] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: drat [16:14:18] kevincolyerwork: ok we will add in someting on Portals and Front page at end of agenda. [16:14:34] ... Chris: what do you want to talk about? [16:14:47] chris: well... my biggest thing is ease of use [16:15:02] ... i'm thinking of how can we make this KB something that anyone will feel comfortable contributing to [16:15:29] kevincolyerwork: Good. Sounds like part of point 4 [16:15:35] chris: yeah [16:15:41] kevincolyerwork: Perhaps you can ponder the barriers for people [16:15:53] chris: shall i do that here or in my head? [16:15:54] ... ;) [16:16:23] kevincolyerwork: just mutter outloud - they might all think you are mad in Ohio and leave you alone for the meeting! [16:16:39] chris: :D [16:16:50] ... well... i am, by far, NOT the typical user [16:17:02] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: chris, that isn't muttering, it is a picture of someone muttering [16:17:14] kevincolyerwork: OK [16:17:25] chris: and my first experience with a WIKI was a bit dauntind [16:17:27] ... *daunting [16:17:33] ... the interface was confusing [16:17:40] kevincolyerwork: Yep [16:17:42] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: what suggestions do you have then chris [16:17:43] chris: it doesn't help that it has it's own special way of formatting [16:17:45] kevincolyerwork: It took me a while [16:17:53] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it took me seconds [16:17:59] kevincolyerwork: a year ful [16:18:06] ... full of seconds [16:18:11] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: *a long time [16:18:23] ... kevin and i are thinking of putting a [16:18:24] Douglass: I myself use the wysiwyg editor, and use syntax for touch up. [16:18:26] chris: my suggestion would perhaps be to find something that would be easier to understand... from the little bit that i saw of Deki Wiki that Doug showed me... [16:18:30] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: 'start here' button back on [16:18:30] chris: it seems easy [16:18:54] Douglass: http://wiki.opengarden.org/Deki_Wiki [16:19:00] chris: thanks [16:19:29] kevincolyerwork: There are so many wiki's now. About 200 implimentations of them. Plus I wrote a little one in PHP once. [16:19:54] chris: nice! [16:20:01] Douglass: I think this one is probably the easyest I've seen. [16:20:12] kevincolyerwork: Looks good. [16:20:16] chris: what about maybe using something like Wordpress as an overlay application? [16:20:23] kevincolyerwork: Can that be done? [16:20:27] chris: (just as an alternative) [16:20:36] ... David Couper in Harpenden [16:20:45] kevincolyerwork: Have you tried the wysiwyg editor yet? [16:20:47] chris: can tear Wordpress apart & build it back up in an form her wants [16:20:55] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: wow [16:21:01] Douglass: I think that would be a lot of coding. [16:21:06] chris: he did that with the new ywam harpenden site [16:21:14] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: will it look the same? [16:21:17] chris: it's all Wordpress redesigned/reprogrammed [16:21:27] ... Alex Costa also helps him there [16:21:29] ... with that [16:21:37] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, but they are very very busy [16:21:47] chris: well... yes... but i'd have to wonder [16:21:53] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i have been waiting 2 months for them to set up a sharepoint site [16:21:54] kevincolyerwork: doug showed my the wysiwyg editor for mediawiki that we are trialing here. I have not found many wysiwyg editors for wikis. Most were designed before blogs. [16:22:03] chris: if they have Wordpress wrapped up like that... maybe it wouldn't be hard to integrate [16:22:17] ... anyway... just an idea [16:22:17] kevincolyerwork: The problem is that the wiki markup is not html [16:22:22] chris: right [16:22:24] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i'd rather stay a little away from ywam it, they are busy [16:22:25] chris: that is a problem [16:22:42] kevincolyerwork: and although there are wysiwyg editors for html none really work well with wikis' [16:22:58] chris: that's interesting [16:22:59] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i spoke with them for 3 years about setting up this wiki and they kept putting it off -- it is not a priority for them, it is for me [16:23:06] kevincolyerwork: the one we use now is a beta version and is re-written to squirt out mediawiki code [16:23:15] Douglass: deki wiki uses regular html, which means that any wysiwyg editor will work. [16:23:26] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: can we change it easily kev? [16:23:28] kevincolyerwork: hmmm. I will look into it. I [16:23:31] ... Not realluy [16:23:34] chris: what are the pros & what are the cons of using Deki Wiki? [16:23:40] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: otherwise i'd rathe we trained people to use it? [16:23:52] kevincolyerwork: we have 263 content pages and hundreds of other pages written so far - that is a lot to change [16:23:52] chris: that's the thing, Steve... to be honest... [16:24:03] ... i don't know that folks will have the time or inclination to be trained... [16:24:08] ... i could be wrong about that [16:24:11] Douglass: good points, both [16:24:14] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i love wikipedia and it is very very similar [16:24:17] kevincolyerwork: you could be right too [16:24:22] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: and loads have learned to use it [16:24:26] chris: yes [16:24:29] kevincolyerwork: loads of techincal people [16:24:32] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i'd rather we had the [16:24:38] ... 'where to start thing' work out [16:24:49] Douglass: what about a script to automaticly take all 200+ articles and convert them to html? [16:24:50] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: give real thought to how to present it [16:24:56] chris: what is ywamkb based on? something other than mediawiki? [16:25:02] kevincolyerwork: Sarah Cumming is joining! [16:25:08] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: hi sarah, welcome back [16:25:11] * kevincolyerwork invited eeyorerulez [16:25:12] Douglass: it uses mediawiki [16:25:14] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: how was gibraltar [16:25:20] chris: ah ok... [16:25:22] ... hi Sarah [16:25:28] Sarah Cumming: Hi ya [16:25:40] Douglass: hello and welcome [16:25:42] Sarah Cumming: Gib is cold today [16:25:44] kevincolyerwork: Welcome sarah. We are sort of talking about Barriers to entry. Our agenda is here; http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Meeting_20071203 [16:25:49] Sarah Cumming: thanks! [16:26:04] kevincolyerwork: We jummped to point 3 I guess on the way to point 4 [16:26:26] Sarah Cumming: ok let me just get to this! [16:26:35] kevincolyerwork: chris: when we set up the wiki the idea was to leaverage the mediawiki knowledge out there. [16:26:39] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: when i've sat with people and walked them through it they can put stuff on [16:26:47] chris: ok [16:26:55] kevincolyerwork: I'm glad we did or we wouldn't have had the editor we have now. Plus there was a lot less choise then! [16:27:05] ... Keep a sharp eye on it Chris [16:27:05] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: but still need a clearer presentation [16:27:12] chris: i have to agree... the editor did help a lot [16:27:18] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: and i still fluctuate between the wsiwyg and the other one [16:27:22] ... i use both [16:27:23] kevincolyerwork: I think he makes a top point here: we must make barriers as low as possible [16:27:30] ... I only use the text one [16:27:33] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: very low [16:27:38] ... low low low [16:27:39] ... sorry [16:27:43] chris: :D [16:27:46] kevincolyerwork: Has anyone watched my Screencasts [16:27:49] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes [16:27:49] kevincolyerwork: ?? [16:27:53] Douglass: I have [16:27:54] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i have started to do another one [16:27:54] chris: didn't know they were there [16:28:00] kevincolyerwork: On front page [16:28:05] ... now [16:28:05] Douglass: how about we focus on ways to improve our implementation of mediawiki, and keep the deki wiki idea on the back burner? [16:28:08] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: the first one introducing the main page is dated [16:28:09] Sarah Cumming: are they [16:28:12] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: and i wanted to renew it [16:28:28] kevincolyerwork: yes I guss so [16:28:34] ... I need to rework them [16:28:43] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: can we then try some teaching pages that really do make it simple [16:28:50] Douglass: perhaps you could embed the youtube video right in the page. [16:28:56] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: kev, can i visit with you before christams? [16:28:57] kevincolyerwork: That would be possible [16:29:04] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: for 2 days? [16:29:07] ... or are you too busy? [16:29:16] kevincolyerwork: most likely - chat later? [16:29:19] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ok [16:29:23] ... low [16:29:42] kevincolyerwork: Proposal: embed instructional videos in wiki [16:29:43] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: the dts should have a week on knowledgebases [16:29:50] ... ok, good proposal [16:30:00] kevincolyerwork: Has anyone trained anyone else in the KB? [16:30:02] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: and redo them if they aren't clear enough [16:30:08] kevincolyerwork: DTS? [16:30:19] ... You should do a DTS Steve [16:30:20] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ok, all UofN courses [16:30:35] kevincolyerwork: I Has anyone trained anyone else in the KB? [16:30:38] Douglass: I would love to train people here, but my biggest problem is getting people to see why it is important. [16:30:59] kevincolyerwork: Why do they struggle with that? [16:31:03] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: some of my friends plan their dts using the kb [16:31:10] ... they love it [16:31:37] ... when the new teams section really takes off it will become really really obvious the benefit [16:31:40] chris: i like the aspect of document sharing using a kb [16:31:52] Douglass: the problem is getting people to see that some times they need to focus on not just imediate needs, but things of long-term benifit. [16:32:06] chris: which is something Rodney Blevins & i did when we started to work on the new ywam.eu site [16:32:08] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, but also retention of knowledge and sharing of the latest practice [16:32:21] chris: yes... [16:32:24] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: documents can be very static [16:32:43] ... and are often written by people in offices [16:32:46] chris: i guess i was referring to documents as electronic versions... [16:32:53] Sarah Cumming: how many regular users are there? [16:32:56] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we want the best practitioners writing stuff [16:33:03] ... not many yet [16:33:13] kevincolyerwork: i disagree - we want anyone to write stuff... [16:33:27] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we want practitioners writing stuff [16:33:47] ... we want people who know something to write stuff [16:33:48] kevincolyerwork: hopefully the best practioners will then get jelous and write! [16:34:02] chris: i know i contributed to the GENESIS pages... [16:34:07] kevincolyerwork: Me too! [16:34:12] Douglass: lol, I think there is truth to what both of you are saying. [16:34:14] chris: but then i heard that some leaders in GENESIS didn't like the idea of putting too much info on there [16:34:26] kevincolyerwork: Why on EARTH NOT? [16:34:29] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: they need to be healed [16:34:35] kevincolyerwork: forgive them lord [16:34:37] chris: because they thought maybe it would do away the need for the training programs [16:34:43] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: if it is so good it must be independent of them [16:34:46] chris: come on guys... let's keep an open mind [16:34:47] kevincolyerwork: Great - they should be got rid of [16:34:52] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: good, that is one of the points of the kb [16:35:09] ... so that it can multiply way beyond us and our ability to control and direct it [16:35:23] kevincolyerwork: The problem with Genesis is that if they don't multiply it Skype will outmultiply them [16:35:27] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: proposal: look at front page, videos and ease of use [16:35:33] ... then move on to next point [16:35:39] Sarah Cumming: What part of the agenda is this in? [16:35:40] chris: well... i think it's important to realize that we're dealing with a huge paradigm shift [16:35:47] Douglass: I think we need to keep in mind that the idea of a wiki is a revolutionary concept to some, and they may be a bit resistant at first. [16:35:50] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: not so huge [16:35:53] kevincolyerwork: and the gears are crunching! [16:36:29] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: for 30 years i've been collecting DTS stuff and putting it in files for the staff. we rewrite them all the time -- it is simply trying to colect everybodies stuff and put it on the internet [16:36:41] kevincolyerwork: Actually there are a few sticking points: DTS center folks, now some Genesis folks and also some YWAM England staff are all trying to grapple with this! [16:36:54] ... Only YWAM England are in dialogue about ti [16:37:07] chris: may i interject one thing here? [16:37:11] kevincolyerwork: sure [16:37:12] Douglass: please do [16:37:36] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i spent time with the entire english leadership team this week showing them how to use the kb and they were thrilled. [16:37:41] ... oops, sorry [16:37:48] kevincolyerwork: ssssh [16:37:55] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: go for it chris [16:38:10] chris: let's please try to understand that there are many wounds out there regarding communication in general... so i think it's important that we approach this whole thing with an attitude of service [16:38:22] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: wounds? [16:38:23] chris: i'm talking about YWAM communication [16:38:27] kevincolyerwork: Can you explain a little? [16:38:32] chris: that was the whole reason for the creation of CRIT [16:38:53] ... Lynn Green felt from the Lord that He wanted to heal the nervous system of YWAM [16:39:02] ... that's why he created CRIT... [16:39:15] ... so that we can understand how God wants to heal our nervous system [16:39:24] ... because without a good communication system [16:39:39] ... the enemy can very easily divide and conquer [16:39:56] kevincolyerwork: And that is really the motivation behind the KB [16:40:07] ... To share, to support and help each other [16:40:13] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i think Lynn wanted to create it, it wasn't really there before [16:40:20] chris: and i guess, we here, in this place... have a responsibility to make sure that we approach this with the utmost of respect of those we're trying to serve [16:40:28] kevincolyerwork: D'accord [16:40:54] ... I think it is important to consider the creation of community too [16:41:02] ... For example [16:41:20] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: for nearly 30 years people have been asking me the same questions over and over again and i wanted a place for all of us to be able to contribute and share everything we've ever learned that could be a help to others. it is creating a community that shares [16:41:39] kevincolyerwork: Communication is for the purpose of community. We started the KB to draw those needing help and those offering help together. [16:42:00] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i think i understand some of your concern chris [16:42:04] kevincolyerwork: Case in point I have never physically met you Chris or Douglass. Now we have a purposeful meeting together [16:42:15] chris: i can say that i am honored to even be a part of this... and i am very excited Kevin that you & Steve & Doug are spearheading this [16:42:22] kevincolyerwork: and you [16:42:25] ... and sarha [16:42:41] chris: brb [16:42:58] kevincolyerwork: I think this is a good discussion [16:43:03] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: did you know that for 12 years i used to oversee the dtss in the UK and ireland, we worked closely together then, did before that and continue to. working together has been something of a value for us for many many years. the kb is a way to extend it [16:43:18] ... i am so so so very excited about the developing new teams network [16:43:42] Douglass: I agree. I think it is safe to say that the conversation has moved to the area of recruiting. [16:43:51] ... any ideas on this topic? [16:43:53] kevincolyerwork: Proposal: If we hear of people struggling with the giving away of stuff on the KB that we encourage dialog. Steve and myself are happy to talk to anyone who has misgivings. [16:43:56] Sarah Cumming: sorry I'm back [16:44:01] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB Meeting: recruiting" [16:44:09] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: there are many teams out there with 40 -- 70% of what they need to know to get their team really functioning and multiplying, between us all we know all that we need to know, we just haven't got a way to share it besides this [16:44:20] Douglass: I like that idea kevin [16:44:23] kevincolyerwork: ANYONE IN AGREEMENT WITH MY PROPOSAL? [16:44:30] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: what about my proposal? [16:44:38] ... i like mine [16:44:44] kevincolyerwork: Restate in one sentence pls [16:44:45] Sarah Cumming: I like both :-) [16:44:51] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i like sarah [16:44:55] kevincolyerwork: AGREED] [16:45:22] ... Steve: do you think Sarah will come and work for me in Brussels and help us with the KB> [16:45:24] ... ? [16:45:27] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: proposal: look at front page, videos and ease of use [16:45:35] Sarah Cumming: Pray and let me know! [16:45:40] kevincolyerwork: OK [16:45:42] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: sarah would if she were saved! [16:45:48] Sarah Cumming: hahaha [16:45:56] Douglass: I agree steve. The front page is important. [16:46:00] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: and Kev's about dialog [16:46:03] kevincolyerwork: Steve: Lets go back to your point about the front page and then go forwrds to recruiting [16:46:10] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB Meeting: Frontpage then Recruiting" [16:46:10] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: can we agree the two proposals [16:46:20] ... did we agree before we go back to recruiting? [16:46:23] kevincolyerwork: Can we be more specific about front page [16:46:41] Sarah Cumming: whats the problem with it - Clarity? [16:46:51] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: access to 'where to start' [16:46:54] Sarah Cumming: aaah [16:47:09] kevincolyerwork: But where should people start???????? [16:47:19] Sarah Cumming: Ooohhh ok [16:47:27] kevincolyerwork: More video? [16:47:38] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: let me suggest [16:47:43] chris: sorry... i'm back [16:47:45] Sarah Cumming: video needs to be higher up I think [16:47:58] Douglass: I think that the front page is a little cluttered. Also, if we could embed the intro video into the front page, that would help. [16:48:10] chris: i'd like to remind us of the fact that many can't watch video because of bandwidth restrictions [16:48:18] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: this is 'waht contribution you can make' and this is 'how to make your contribution' [16:48:18] kevincolyerwork: ;-( [16:48:30] chris: yeah... that's good Steve [16:48:35] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: very simple [16:48:48] ... i think it is a matter of critical mass [16:48:51] chris: perhaps there could be a short, succint mission/vision statement? [16:48:56] kevincolyerwork: Chris: lets write the text first and film a video after [16:49:01] chris: sure :)( [16:49:08] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: at some point everyone will be able to use it, just like wikipedia, God bless it's holy name [16:49:10] kevincolyerwork: There is this... [16:49:15] Sarah Cumming: there is too much text [16:49:15] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, text first [16:49:21] ... sorry [16:49:24] chris: Sarah: i agree [16:49:24] Sarah Cumming: though [16:49:30] kevincolyerwork: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:About [16:49:32] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: sry [16:49:44] kevincolyerwork: Should I cut out the news bit? [16:49:55] Douglass: I think we should get rid of the tag cloud. I love clouds, but for most people I think they are overwelming. [16:50:00] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: no, i think it will catch on [16:50:08] chris: i think i would agree, Doug [16:50:22] Sarah Cumming: what are clouds ? [16:50:24] chris: what is the point of the tag cloud? [16:50:38] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i wasn't talking about the tag cloud, just the growing ability to use it [16:50:41] kevincolyerwork: to quickly and visually see the type of stuff there [16:51:00] Douglass: it is a way to kinda get a snapshot of the entire content. The area with tones of words with different sizes. [16:51:04] kevincolyerwork: Basically every category over 5 pages apprears on the cloud [16:51:13] chris: Sarah... the tag cloud is the list of Categories the appears on the right of the front page.... [16:51:14] Sarah Cumming: aaaah that bit [16:51:20] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: the tag cloud looks good and attractive [16:51:21] kevincolyerwork: More pages bigger the text [16:51:32] Sarah Cumming: I like that [16:51:33] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: but it could be replaced by a snazzy set of major portals [16:51:45] kevincolyerwork: it could [16:51:50] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: portals to the major areas [16:51:52] chris: is there a possibility of maybe using some Ajax there? [16:52:03] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ajaz? [16:52:04] chris: or would that be too narrowing of the audience, as well? [16:52:06] kevincolyerwork: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/Portal [16:52:23] chris: Ajax... Web 2.0... [16:52:32] ... interacitve html [16:52:36] ... interactive [16:52:38] kevincolyerwork: yep ajax is possible - there is an expanding tree view of content but it is not as nice as the cloud [16:52:44] chris: ok [16:52:45] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: [nice portal kev, something like that] [16:53:00] ... i like the portal and the clouds [16:53:03] chris: yeah... i really like that, Kev [16:53:14] kevincolyerwork: it needs some work [16:53:18] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i like the cloud overview with its emphasis on the specific content [16:53:39] ... i think access is the issue, how do people access and add to hte content [16:53:45] kevincolyerwork: I want to hurry people tothe stuff they want and not prescribe the heirachy too much [16:54:02] Sarah Cumming: ok we like the cloud, can the video be higher up on the page? [16:54:08] kevincolyerwork: Yep [16:54:29] ... idea: If steve visits me b4 christmas we make a little video and embed it [16:54:41] Sarah Cumming: could you reduce the number of points on the syndicated news [16:54:42] ... ? [16:54:45] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ok, i'll come -- i'll just ahve to talk to julie first [16:54:55] chris: i wish there was a way to detect bandwidth of a user to determine if the video should even be offered [16:55:05] kevincolyerwork: Sarah: its kind of hard wired but I can try [16:55:12] chris: maybe that's a non-issue, though [16:55:16] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: need an alternative option for teaching the basics then [16:55:17] Douglass: there might be, but I think it would require php [16:55:38] chris: what about periodic GENESIS links? [16:55:38] kevincolyerwork: Chris: we can put a link underneath pointing to the text of the movie. Plus text will get translated/shredded by google [16:55:48] chris: for training [16:55:57] ... & awareness [16:56:01] kevincolyerwork: Good idea! [16:56:16] Douglass: I might be able to do some work on a text/graphical guide. [16:56:22] Sarah Cumming: But you have to pay for Genesis right? wouldnt that cause a probs? [16:56:24] chris: well [16:56:26] kevincolyerwork: I must try to GENESIS myself - I have a webcam after all! [16:56:40] chris: only if you have to link through ISDN... it can be done over the 'net [16:56:51] kevincolyerwork: Chris: could you do a GENESIS for cheap page: explain about epigka and webcams and stuff [16:57:01] chris: it's there, i believe [16:57:04] ... isn't it? [16:57:17] kevincolyerwork: Not very clear that ordinary people with broadband can do it [16:57:26] ... like a recipe [16:57:45] chris: for fear of getting off topic, though... it's important to understand that GENESIS is not a technology... it's a ministry... & it's not about any one technology either [16:58:03] ... i think that's why Mike & i didn't go that direction very clearly [16:58:09] kevincolyerwork: so we can do skype too? ;) [16:58:28] ... OK [16:58:31] chris: actually not yet... because, ironically, GENESIS is wanting to stick with industry standard protocols [16:58:37] kevincolyerwork: Touche! [16:58:49] ... Openwenga phone? [16:58:53] chris: ?? [16:58:57] kevincolyerwork: Check it out! [16:59:01] ... ANY WAY [16:59:01] chris: ok [16:59:04] ... right :p [16:59:42] kevincolyerwork: Proposal: Change front page to more clearly focus on getting people involved, and to information. Cut down words etc. Film and embed a video [16:59:57] ... Vote? +1 for -1 against [17:00:01] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: me for [17:00:04] chris: sounds good [17:00:04] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i'll help [17:00:06] ... i was going to do it [17:00:06] kevincolyerwork: +1 [17:00:15] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: let's do it together then [17:00:27] kevincolyerwork: We can all write the text - that's what wiki's are for! [17:00:29] Douglass: sorry, my wi-fi is having issues [17:00:30] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it will be great and accessible for all [17:00:36] kevincolyerwork: Cool. [17:00:38] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: my wifi hates me [17:00:40] kevincolyerwork: Next point? [17:00:42] chris: :p [17:00:44] ... sorry, steve [17:00:46] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB Meeting: Recruiting" [17:00:47] chris: i understand [17:01:04] kevincolyerwork: over to you doug [17:01:21] Douglass: so, any ideas on how to get people to truely buy into the idea of a ywam wiki? [17:01:49] kevincolyerwork: doug's wifi's mad with him [17:01:53] Douglass: so, any ideas on how to get people to truely buy into the idea of a ywam wiki? [17:02:00] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: my wife is sometimes mad with me [17:02:04] ... ha ha ha ha [17:02:11] ... very funny steve [17:02:21] kevincolyerwork: Recruiting: people are joining about 1 every 3 days [17:02:24] ... BUT [17:02:25] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: my wife's dog never liked me [17:02:28] kevincolyerwork: not all are writing [17:02:48] ... I want to have a WIKI writing week! [17:02:50] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we need to make it easier, we already agreed to do that [17:03:02] Douglass: so I think there are two aspects to recruiting: [17:03:06] kevincolyerwork: Invite people to spend a week wherever they are and write for the wiki [17:03:13] ... sorry doug [17:03:16] Douglass: getting people to come and "use" the site, and getting people to contribute [17:03:21] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes [17:03:25] kevincolyerwork: d'accord [17:03:30] Douglass: both need to be addressed [17:03:48] chris: perhaps write something as a news article on ywamconnect.net [17:03:55] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: in business there is some agreement that it needs a core group to write most of it until it reaches a critical point [17:03:55] kevincolyerwork: good idea [17:04:00] chris: incl. a photo so it could be in the main news section [17:04:10] kevincolyerwork: screenshot? [17:04:11] chris: makes sense [17:04:11] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: could we find 10 -- 15 people who will contribute a lot [17:04:17] ... and then see it accelerate [17:04:25] kevincolyerwork: It is accelrating [17:04:26] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: kev and i have still put most of the material on, i think [17:04:28] chris: screenshot could be [17:04:40] kevincolyerwork: Look at the stat's page: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Statistics [17:04:44] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: can we recruit the 15 people? [17:04:52] ... i look at it every day [17:04:55] chris: i'm still new to YWAM, so i don't feel qualified to write much [17:05:05] kevincolyerwork: Steve Goode is adding a lot [17:05:14] ... Chris: Doesn't matter. [17:05:16] Sarah Cumming: write about how you got there [17:05:24] chris: oh [17:05:26] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i love steve goode [17:05:27] chris: good point sarah [17:05:47] kevincolyerwork: Just wirite about what you know. It is suprising how quickly you know a lot [17:06:09] chris: because that might be something that could be interesting for folks... because my wife & i pretty much ONLY used the internet in our decision making (not in place of prayer, of course) [17:06:18] kevincolyerwork: there is a section on being a missionary that actually being a new YWAM would help! [17:06:30] ... We need to know that! [17:06:43] chris: how do i know where to begin? [17:06:50] ... AHH... there's the rub! [17:06:54] ... :) [17:07:08] kevincolyerwork: Chris: Here http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/Why_I_joined_YWAM [17:07:15] chris: like... where would i even classify this kind of thing? [17:07:19] kevincolyerwork: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/Why_I_joined_YWAM [17:07:33] ... Let others classify what you write. [17:07:33] chris: but here's my point... [17:07:35] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we need to work on classifications to make it easier [17:07:39] ... yes, kev [17:07:40] chris: how would anyone else know where to start? [17:07:52] kevincolyerwork: that is harder to say! [17:08:02] chris: the thing that was hard for me to grasp right away was that i could simply start a page [17:08:04] kevincolyerwork: In the welcome message I make a menu of suggestions [17:08:11] chris: by just typing in what i wanted to find [17:08:14] Douglass: I think that is where a good video / text tutorial comes in. [17:08:19] chris: yes [17:08:26] ... because that was very easy [17:08:26] kevincolyerwork: that is why we added the create page button [17:08:28] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: let's put this all together into the 'how to start' ideas [17:08:30] ... great [17:08:35] kevincolyerwork: ok [17:08:37] chris: but it wasn't something that i would come up with right away [17:08:45] Sarah Cumming: guys, I'm sorry but I need to go [17:08:45] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: tell me more chris [17:08:47] kevincolyerwork: we will try to make it clearer [17:08:50] ... by! [17:08:52] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: bye sarah we love you [17:08:52] kevincolyerwork: bye! [17:08:57] Sarah Cumming: byeeeee [17:09:04] chris: i mean... how would i know to simply type something into the search & if it doesn't exist it would create a page for me? [17:09:05] Sarah Cumming: Kev we'll be in touch [17:09:07] chris: bye sarah! [17:09:08] Sarah Cumming: :-) [17:09:12] ... byeeee [17:09:22] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i didn't know that!!!!!!! [17:09:23] kevincolyerwork: c'est ne plus logique! [17:09:26] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i've never used it [17:09:29] chris: :D [17:09:31] kevincolyerwork: I di! [17:09:32] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i am rubbish [17:09:33] kevincolyerwork: do [17:09:36] ... yes [17:09:40] ... shocking steve [17:09:45] chris: that's the easiest thing ever [17:09:48] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i feel ill [17:09:53] chris: hee hee [17:09:54] ... sorry, steve [17:09:58] kevincolyerwork: us young people rule [17:09:59] chris: ;) [17:10:00] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i think that's how wikipedia works [17:10:04] kevincolyerwork: OK [17:10:05] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ish [17:10:05] ... i am young [17:10:09] ... 53 [17:10:11] kevincolyerwork: So about recruiting new people [17:10:20] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: though i'm often mistaken for an older person [17:10:20] chris: i think mediawiki is an extension of wikipedia, isn't it? [17:10:23] kevincolyerwork: proposal article in ywamconnect.net [17:10:32] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: no, wikipedia is an extension of ywamkb [17:10:33] chris: i'm happy to write that [17:10:37] ... if yo'd want [17:10:42] ... *you'd [17:10:46] ... for ywamconnect.net [17:10:46] kevincolyerwork: mediawiki is the software that runs wikipedia etc [17:10:49] chris: right [17:10:50] ... ok [17:10:58] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: fantastic chris -- could you explain a little of how to acces it too then please? [17:11:06] chris: access it? [17:11:14] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: find stuff, add stuff [17:11:14] chris: (just need clarification) [17:11:15] kevincolyerwork: Please - check these pages and add your stuff there too YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community Portal [17:11:25] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: find stuff add stuff [17:11:34] chris: so basically i'd write a brief tutorial? [17:11:46] kevincolyerwork: YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community Portal is a good place to put stuff [17:11:48] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, and how it will help them [17:12:03] chris: hmm... one thing... really quick [17:12:04] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: plan dts, outreach, train staff, start new evangelism team [17:12:19] chris: this doesn't make sense to me... is this wiki markup? YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community Portal [17:12:25] kevincolyerwork: [mediawiki is the software that runs wikipedia etc . it is in PHP and runs on apache with mysql or other backend] [17:12:26] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: how it will help ME, is really important. it must scratch where people itch [17:12:35] Douglass: I think that the ywamconnect article should be more about why ywamkb is so great, and the tutorial should be on the site itself [17:12:41] kevincolyerwork: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community_Portal [17:12:44] ... sorry [17:12:44] chris: i agree, doug [17:12:51] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, i agree [17:13:00] kevincolyerwork: It would be nice to have an article by you guys and not us [17:13:04] chris: so tell me... is this wiki markup? YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community Portal [17:13:04] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: can that be the third proposal [17:13:13] kevincolyerwork: no I meant :http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community_Portal [17:13:31] ... in markup its [[YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community_Portal]] [17:13:48] chris: so.... i would give them this url? http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community_Portal [17:14:13] kevincolyerwork: no. that was for you. I have some promotions pages there. [17:14:22] chris: ok [17:14:34] Douglass: Chris:Idea: how about you put up your initial text on the kb, then we can colab on it a bit, then submit it. [17:14:42] chris: sounds good :) [17:14:45] kevincolyerwork: That was what I meant! [17:15:02] ... Back to recruiting: What about getting others to write [17:15:20] chris: perhaps we could put something on ywamit.com as well [17:15:22] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: 15 people doing a lot should be enough [17:15:25] ... ? [17:15:26] chris: or maybe the same thing [17:15:31] kevincolyerwork: do it! [17:15:32] chris: as ywamconnect.net [17:15:33] ... ok [17:15:47] kevincolyerwork: I would love to see an IY article on it. [17:15:53] Douglass: perhaps start off by expanding the section of new content we wont, then contact people outside our little group who have experience in these topics, and ask them to write. [17:16:00] ... want* [17:16:15] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, great idea doug [17:16:24] kevincolyerwork: I am working on Mercy ministries a bit. Steve Goode (Groove1950) is adding a lot [17:16:34] ... we should ask him to champion us a bit [17:16:38] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: fantastic [17:17:05] Douglass: question: Does Lynn Green know about the KB, and if so, what does he think about it? [17:17:11] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, he has seen it [17:17:11] chris: he should know [17:17:13] kevincolyerwork: He like is [17:17:14] chris: i think it's right up his ally [17:17:20] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i spoke to him about it on thursday [17:17:21] chris: :) [17:17:26] kevincolyerwork: but not written anything yey [17:17:31] ... I have be invited to the Eurocom meeting in January by Jeff Fountiain [17:17:34] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: he didn't particularly express an opinion [17:17:47] kevincolyerwork: Will oyu be there Chris? [17:17:56] chris: i'm in the US till March, i'm afraiid [17:18:01] ... i wish i could be there!!! [17:18:10] kevincolyerwork: Perhaps we should Genesis you in? [17:18:16] chris: perhaps so! [17:18:17] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ywam is both a movement and an organization. i think the kb is part of the movement and the better for it. What do you think? [17:19:00] chris: it makes sense... anything that keeps our collaboration decentralized fits into the DNA of ywam... [17:19:01] kevincolyerwork: I tried to explain that so far we have this section: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php?title=Category:Communication. I think CRITers everywhere could contribute and imporve it [17:19:06] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: let me say something when there is a free minute [17:19:26] Douglass: ok [17:19:30] kevincolyerwork: ok [17:19:31] chris: listening [17:19:38] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: most leaders from western eurpe will be together for a week in early april [17:19:48] ... and it will major on the new teams network [17:19:51] kevincolyerwork: 31st March - 4 April [17:20:01] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we want to committ to starting nearly 100 new teams in the next 2 years [17:20:02] chris: where will it be? [17:20:07] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: kev? [17:20:13] kevincolyerwork: Near Appeldorn, Netherlands [17:20:25] chris: is this something that you will be at? [17:20:27] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we will have a list of about 50 resource people on the kb [17:20:30] kevincolyerwork: yes [17:20:34] chris: great [17:20:41] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: each will identify an area they have learned [17:20:46] ... startin a new team [17:20:49] ... raising team money, [17:20:52] ... starting a project [17:20:52] kevincolyerwork: You can come as a guest from Europe N [17:20:54] chris: steve... is that the resource list of people & their abilities? [17:20:58] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: identifying a new leader [17:21:03] kevincolyerwork: yes [17:21:08] chris: ok cool [17:21:09] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: and they will put material on related to that [17:21:19] ... and then over the few months after the conference [17:21:36] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB Meeting: Recruiting (10 mins till end of meeting - don't forget your hat and coat)" [17:21:43] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: they will offer to spend a day or 2 or 5 with whoever will come to them to teach them [17:21:50] chris: i have a friend who *might* be taking leadership of communication for N. Europe... so i'll be sure to let her know about this? [17:21:53] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i think it will provide a boost to the kb [17:22:05] ... and of course, more important, to evangelism in europe [17:22:11] ... and collaboration on that [17:22:14] ... finished [17:22:16] kevincolyerwork: Chris: please invite her to be involved [17:22:35] chris: thanks Steve... [17:22:35] Douglass: Misc. Proposal: Create a new section in community portal for brainstorming kb improvement ideas. [17:22:42] kevincolyerwork: AGREED [17:22:45] chris: :) [17:23:16] ... i have a question, if there's space/time [17:23:31] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: go for it [17:24:08] chris: what about sensitive info? is there/should there be some leadership involvement to make sure there isn't anything posted that would be damaging to YWAM'ers & their security in sensitive zones? [17:24:27] kevincolyerwork: We recommend people don't use the KB for that [17:24:34] chris: is there some kind of accountability for new users? [17:24:41] kevincolyerwork: Acutally there is little to be gained in posting it [17:24:51] chris: true... just like... locations [17:24:53] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it is the same as the wikipedia [17:25:12] Douglass: I think that the accountability comes from the fact that anyone can edit it. [17:25:15] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: as community develops, people check what each other write to improve and look out for it [17:25:19] kevincolyerwork: so far no-one has done anything like that [17:25:21] chris: right now ywam kb is manageable with the amount of users [17:25:36] ... but like... ywamconnect.net now has 16,500 users (or more) [17:25:45] ... that would be extremely tough to moderate [17:25:59] Douglass: I think once the kb gets huge, we'll need people that oversee spcific sections. [17:26:04] chris: yes [17:26:05] ... ok [17:26:07] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: there is already someone from the DTS center that looks over dts stuff to make sure it is right [17:26:10] kevincolyerwork: I can't think why people would make that mistake [17:26:11] chris: just thinking out loud, as it were :) [17:26:22] ... i'm just thinking [17:26:29] ... that if anyone is able to create a username [17:26:31] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it may be worth putting a caveat somewhere saying it though chris [17:26:42] kevincolyerwork: I think it is in the faq [17:26:50] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: perhaps i wrote it then? [17:26:55] kevincolyerwork: yep [17:27:00] chris: great [17:27:18] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i did write it, i really am rubbish [17:27:18] kevincolyerwork: It is easy to rollback and delete information [17:27:27] chris: :D [17:27:28] Douglass: lol [17:27:30] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ha ha [17:27:35] kevincolyerwork: I did delete a password colin left in his xml stuff! [17:27:47] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i'm not even smart enough to be a nerd, drat [17:27:50] chris: i know one of the issues at the IT forum of CRIT '06 was making sure the websites representing YWAM are doing so with integrity [17:27:52] kevincolyerwork: But to be honest he could also change his password too! [17:28:40] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it is back to the movement and organization thing though [17:28:43] kevincolyerwork: You could write some guidelines and put in the communications category on the KB [17:28:45] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we are ywam [17:28:46] chris: which, by the way, Kevin, i truly appreciated you coming up with a logo for the KB that was respectful of the original YWAM logo [17:29:02] kevincolyerwork: I like the new one now. [17:29:03] chris: yes... you are right, Steve [17:29:05] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: well done kev on the logo thing, we needed a real ywam thing [17:29:31] kevincolyerwork: Actually I might add the digital background to it sometime soon [17:29:37] ... minor point! [17:29:39] chris: :D [17:29:41] kevincolyerwork: Suggestion: What do you think of having a face to face week sometime about the KB? I would like time together to enjoy each other, inspire, time to write and worship etc [17:30:06] chris: well, 3 of the 4 of us who are here are in Europe, right? [17:30:16] ... i mean, i'm not there at the moment... [17:30:17] Douglass: I'd have to be in via video link, but sounds great. [17:30:18] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, could we start at the meeting in April? [17:30:27] kevincolyerwork: Face to face is important. We could do a "sprint" at the WELC and have an afternoon and evening together and write write write! [17:30:32] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: or can we do it with genesis? [17:30:36] kevincolyerwork: yep [17:30:47] chris: i think it'd be possible, Steve [17:31:03] ... if i couldn't be there physically, i could most likely do GENESIS [17:31:07] kevincolyerwork: I wonder as we have 122 reg users now that some might like to come [17:31:20] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, many [17:31:21] kevincolyerwork: Brussels is nice in the spring! [17:31:27] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: especially the 15! [17:31:32] chris: i loved Brussels the one time i was there [17:31:39] kevincolyerwork: Come back soon! [17:31:42] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it is beautiful [17:31:44] chris: it was in 1996 [17:31:48] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: nice public transport [17:31:49] chris: in the summer [17:31:50] kevincolyerwork: Welcome anytime - we have hospitality rooms here! [17:31:51] Douglass: I've flown over Brussels :) [17:31:53] chris: thank you! [17:31:53] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it has been too long [17:31:59] ... i can spell brussls [17:32:02] chris: :D [17:32:05] kevincolyerwork: bruxelles [17:32:11] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: sorre [17:32:11] kevincolyerwork: brussel [17:32:15] ... brussels [17:32:19] ... breussel [17:32:24] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: words are sprouting [17:32:27] chris: :p [17:32:35] kevincolyerwork: hey it think it is time to wrap up [17:32:38] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ok [17:32:39] chris: ok [17:32:48] ... i will try to write that article really quickly [17:32:51] kevincolyerwork: chris: you are doing a great job promoting the KB up there. Keep it up! [17:32:53] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: wonderful to meet you guys and i appreicate what you all do [17:33:06] chris: :) [17:33:06] Douglass: likewise. [17:33:09] chris: you too guys [17:33:10] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: thanks [17:33:41] kevincolyerwork: Next meeting will be in Jan I think. Prob 7th [17:33:44] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ok, bye all, see you next time [17:33:57] kevincolyerwork: anything not discussed rolled in to next time! [17:34:13] ... Thanks doug - we will try to get gobby going next time! [17:34:41] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB Meeting: OVER! see you Jan 7th!"